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The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

999 replies

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 14:07

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
The government is about to tell you that schools are safe
OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Waxonwaxoff0 · 19/02/2021 15:51

@megletsecond

People who claim their school only had a couple of cases were testing everyone every few days yes Hmm?
Well you could say that about any workplace.
noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 15:51

@NaughtipussMaximus

Not yet. I’m not sure at what stage you out it out last time... maybe when the thread starts to turn?
I really don’t know what makes you think I need to call out for support.

I think anyone who has encountered me on previous threads is aware that I am capable of holding my own...

OP posts:
KittensTeaAndCake · 19/02/2021 15:53

@wizzbangfizz

Good about bloody time our children are back in school - they have suffered long enough it is about time we started living with this virus.
Hear hear.

The teacher/s on these types of threads just need to resign. It is very clear you don't want to teach in schools anymore and would happily work from home forever. Well the R rate has gone right down, the vulnerable have been vaccinated and spring is on its way. It is time.

I've read other teaching threads and thank goodness there are some teachers on MN who can't wait to get back to the classroom. Three cheers for them, I say.

herecomesthsun · 19/02/2021 15:53

[quote dipdips]@caramac04 You sound so lovely! Your lucky lucky grandchildren. Our school used to be brilliant at getting in members of the community to help with listening to the younger children read but the new head stopped it. I thought it was a real shame as it was great for community/school relations and also for those children who don't have a patient/ available ear at home.[/quote]
this x

also on line tutoring for A level students by retired teachers would be lovely I think x

Schoolchoicesucks · 19/02/2021 15:53

My kids need to go back to school soon.

Secondary dc is on normal timetable Teams and has lost all enthusiasm for learning, staring into the abyss of cameras and microphones off.

Primary dc refuses to do any of the homeschool work unless I am sat with them coaxing each answer out of them. If they go back on 8 March, they will have had 9 weeks and 2 days in school in the last year. The work sent from school is not progressing them.

However, repeating the same thing again (all kids back, with some windows open as in September) and expecting different results (infections not to increase exponentially) is insanity.

The vaccination programme is a great success, 20% of people have had 1st dose. The other 80% have not.

Whether it is masks in classes, week on week off rotas, vaccinating teachers or something else - it needs to be done rather than all back and oops it's May half term and the hospitals are full again, back to lockdown.

AllTheWayFromLondonDAMN · 19/02/2021 15:53

This, this, a thousand times this!

SS teacher with SS teacher partner here, two primary aged kids. Whilst school was in and out for our kids in primary before Xmas (in a badly hit London Borough) it was the case that most lids were in most of the time. The SSs DP and I teach at were literally decimated by mid November. Bubbles were HUGE as the government advocated, so whole year groups were being knocked down fast. At points the management of schools were bending the rules to keep groups of kids and staff in -especially kids- because of huge numbers of staff coming down with symptoms. It was madness and spread was as high as it was because a) kids of secondary age get it worse, get it more and spread it well and b) there weren’t even basic distancing in place (through no fault of anyone’s, just no space or resources for it).

Get infants into primaries on March 8 and yr 11 and 13. Clarify what’s being done instead of exams for those kids by then too, please. Then see how the numbers are and reassess during the Easter break. If numbers are still down, start getting more older primary and secondary kids in on a rota system, whilst keeping a keen eye on the numbers. As you say @noblegiraffe, and you’re so
right, some school for all us better than all school for some.

I hope that the government are taking notice of what people are saying.

dipdips · 19/02/2021 15:53

So many people with so many different experiences here of cases at school surely points to the wisdom of opening schools based on location?! We didn't have a single COVID case at primary and we had 2 student cases in secondary - a few teachers had it but they didn't pass it on (in fact we weren't even told about DC's tutor until he told the class himself when he came back as although he sees them every day it is under 15 minutes so they didn't have to isolate. I think I would have liked to have known though?! ) In our school it seemed to be more that teachers coming in from the city (we are very very rural) were catching it as rates were almost neglibile in the areas the students lived.

noblegiraffe · 19/02/2021 15:54

The teacher/s on these types of threads just need to resign. It is very clear you don't want to teach in schools anymore and would happily work from home forever.

It’s like people don’t even bother reading the OP but just cut and paste from some tired old clipboard of tedious nonsense.

OP posts:
AfternoonToffee · 19/02/2021 15:55

I'm just going to wait until Monday, no point in getting all frothy/anxious/happy/sad whatever until we know what is actually going to be happening.

FWIW I think it will be a staggered return, and I'm not even sure any one will be back on the 8th but I know as much, or as little as anyone else, so not even going to think about it.

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 15:55

The dc's massive comprehensive might be more of a challenge but they seem reluctant to use the substantial hall for extra class space or the adjacent sports centre either
We have a hall, a sports hall and a gym. The hall is set up for testing. That means we're teaching drama in the dining room. Which is fine except the periods immediately before and after lunch when they're trying to set up and clear up.
The sports hall will be needed for mock exams for four weeks - two for y11 and two for y13.
We tried to rent an offsite space for mocks but the cost was prohibitively high.

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 15:55

The teachers on this thread are only asking that the return is managed and staggered in an organised sensible way ... that doesn't seem too
Much to ask?

If the return to school is messed up - everything will suffer.

Jenala · 19/02/2021 15:55

I don't know enough to have an opinion either way but this
It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

How is it clear that this is due to secondary school closure as opposed to as a result of lockdown? As sleepovers etc will also have stopped? The two measures happened at the same time unless I'm missing something.

siestalady · 19/02/2021 15:55

Could not agree more @KittensTeaAndCake

time4anothername · 19/02/2021 15:55

@dipdips

I would love to see an army of vaccinated oldies coming to help catch up kids education instead of swanning off on SAGA hols (bookings up massively!!) I have been shopping for the older population in our village, picking up prescriptions, moving out of the way when I see them out walking, calling to see how they are doing (all whilst homeschooling 3DC's) ....and I feel a bit let down now that they are going to have this lovely vaccinated life and we are going to be struggling on with trying to catch DC up. Before I get lampooned I don't really mean this, but I do feel so sad for the children and teenagers they have been so bloody good and they have lost so much and the teens in particular get so much criticism from society in general.
so have you asked them? Many older people would love to get more involved and help out younger families but wouldn't know where and how to offer. In fact, there has been a local charity in my area doing that for a few years before Covid, introducing older but able people with time on their hands to busy, younger working families. This is the sort of thing that's better organised through local community action than nationally.
dipdips · 19/02/2021 15:56

I still want to know if the second wave naturally falling? Or is it solely vaccination leading to the big drop in cases? Does anyone know?

MrsHamlet · 19/02/2021 15:56

The teacher/s on these types of threads just need to resign. It is very clear you don't want to teach in schools anymore and would happily work from home forever.
Is this very clear? How have you come to that conclusion about me?

TwirpingBird · 19/02/2021 15:56

Vaccinate the teachers. Kids go back. Life has to resume at some point. It's been long enough now. The vulnerable have been vaccinated. The kids have made their sacrifice. Time to accept life has an extra risk in it now (and I say that as a secondary teacher).

MotherExtraordinaire · 19/02/2021 15:57

@noblegiraffe

However, this causal dismissal of a huge rise in primary school aged children is reminiscent of those who insist that secondary pupils with Covid didn't catch it in school.

cant, I’m really glad you are here to disagree with me, I genuinely appreciate discussion about what to do with primary.

I did start a thread about primaries before Xmas www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4110213-Primary-school-kids-now-more-infected-than-uni-students but it’s unclear what the problem was.

That’s why I suggested a three week full re-opening before Easter then a two week closure and (genuine) review period to see what happens.

If primary teachers have any good ideas for mitigation measures that can be implemented with all kids in then that would be great. Marquees in playgrounds is a good one for those with space.

Certainly yesterday's Guardian reported that Covid infections have fallen by two-thirds in a month in England but that the virus is now most prevalent among primary-age children and young people. This certainly hangs a question mark over safe for primary returns.

Interestingly, there's lots reported about the drops in cases, yet locally ours are increasing again, can only assume as a result of more mixing in the snowy weather whivh contradicts the whole safe outside argument too.

HauntedPencil · 19/02/2021 15:57

@dipdips

I still want to know if the second wave naturally falling? Or is it solely vaccination leading to the big drop in cases? Does anyone know?
I don't think we have clear data yet - JVT is heading research I think - still a little early to tell.
MrsSpenserGregson · 19/02/2021 15:57

@SpencerGregson Hello!

@noblegiraffe I agree re secondary schools (I work in one, and I'm the proud owner of two teenagers who attend a huge comprehensive school): masks for everyone, and a rota system. Proper PCR testing, and abolish the use of the meaningless word "bubble." And give £££ to schools.

Bigtom · 19/02/2021 15:58

@MrsArchchancellorRidcully

Schools are safe. Why would you need teachers vaccinated? Unless they have been asked to shield, they are at very low risk of illness from covid.

We are expecting our kids (who get ONE shot at childhood) to sacrifice themselves for the elderly. Schools should all be open on Monday in my view. #usforthem

This, with bells on.
dipdips · 19/02/2021 15:58

@time4anothername Yes I have! I ran an apple week at our local school and organised some amazing WI volunteers in to come and help with cooking - together we got every child in the school to cook something apple based to take home over a week - the children adored spending time with them, and it was just the most smiley week.
The new head doesn't like it though. So sad. The WI even wrote to her to volunteer but she didn't answer.

mumsneedwine · 19/02/2021 15:58

@noblegiraffe well I did try and resign. Bastards sucked me back in. But I've already told them I will not be teaching to full classes until 3 weeks after my first vaccine now. Fed up of being expected to put my life/health on the line. I'll come back to socially distanced mask wearing classes or otherwise it's vaccine or I'm off. Making this decision has caused me to be much less anxious about what Boris says as for once I have control.

icantthinkofanamehelp · 19/02/2021 15:59

Yep time to accept the risk .

My year 2 has had September to December in school since March 2020.

Absolutely appalling. I'm disgusted by it at this point .

SmileEachDay · 19/02/2021 16:00

NaughtipussMaximus

You *screenshotted another thread 😂😂😂😂😂 oh my god!!

That’s absolutely gobsmacking.

Wow. That shows your intentions - and they have nothing to do with discussing how to get schools back safely - and for good.

Anyway.

My preference would be KS1 back, followed by KS2 - maybe over the course of a week? I think some settling in without a full school is probably beneficial for the smaller primary children. 2 week wait to check infection rates.

Exam years for the last 2 weeks of this term - 2 weeks of Easter to check infection rates and then other secondary years back.

We have to try and avoid the in out bubble bursting scenario because it’s hugely disruptive.