The government is about to tell you that schools are safe

[noblegiraffe]

It's being reported that the government are about to embark on a two week PR campaign claiming that schools are safe. We've already seen hints of it in that Warwick report that was widely misreported as showing schools don't fuel community transmission (majorly pissing off the author who advocates a cautious return to schools).

The ONS random sampling survey graphs released today are amazing. They show a huge reduction in the infection rates due to lockdown, but the most incredible reduction is in the infection rate of secondary school children. They've gone from being the most infected subset of the population by far, to the 2nd least (behind 70+). It's clear that despite arguments that secondary kids were catching covid out of school (sleepovers, hanging around in parks etc), this just isn't true and the lack of mitigation measures in secondary schools allowed covid to run riot.

We can't re-open in the same way as in September. That would be madness. I know that people will say that it's fine, vulnerable people are being vaccinated and kids don't get it badly BUT what is not acknowledged is that kids aren't being vaccinated, a lot of their teachers won't be by March 8th, nor their parents and so we still need to keep infection levels down. In addition, rampant covid is incredibly disruptive to education. Teachers off for weeks, kids off isolating, some kids in, some kids out...Sept to Dec was a mess that we should be trying our best to avoid repeating. Vaccinations don't address that issue at all.

Community levels are low, but then they were low in September. Pubs, restaurants and non-essential shops are shut now, but we want to be able to open them. We cannot rely on community levels remaining low to stop covid getting into schools and proliferating.

We need to be careful, because certainly secondary schools aren't safe to re-open in a Big Bang gung-ho way that some are advocating, particularly with a more transmissible variant in circulation. Remember to the week before Christmas when school attendance plummeted in Kent and London? In one LA, secondary attendance was at 17%. And yet the DfE decided to threaten schools that wanted to close early to stop the spread with legal action. The schools were right, and the DfE was wrong. Gavin Williamson can't be trusted to have sensible conversations about safety, he's more interested in bully-boy tactics and setting himself up in opposition to teachers and schools.

What can be done? I think there is room to open schools in some way on March 8th. My personal preference (and I'm no spokesperson for teachers here, other opinions will vary) would be primaries back and exam years back for three weeks, then Easter can be used to examine the impact of the full primary re-opening . I'm not sure that school is such a major factor in transmission at primary as it is at secondary for various reasons, however I'm sure that my primary colleagues have their own ideas about what needs to be done there. If full primary re-opening looks untenable, then I would prefer rotas to only certain year groups in. Some school for all pupils would be better than all school for some pupils as we had last year.

Secondary is a different kettle of fish and should be treated separately. Secondaries were a massive risk for transmission. The word 'bubble' should never be used in reference to secondary schools again, as 'bubble' means a group of people who all have to isolate if one of them catches covid, which went in the bin in secondary around the end of September. There are some easy wins in secondary -
Masks in classrooms would be easy and cheap to implement. Exemptions would apply and clear ones could be provided where necessary for lip reading.
A national programme to improve ventilation.
Testing and isolation of any contacts where positive cases are found to flush out asymptomatic pupils (PCR not LFT).
Moving quickly to remote learning where there are outbreaks instead of trying to keep year groups in and schools open as covid works its way through - the attendance just before Christmas in some schools meant kids would have been better served educationally if they were all at home.

Home LFT testing of kids - I'm not convinced tbh, maybe in addition to above measures, but certainly not instead of them.

So if the government messaging is as it has been: schools are safe and no additional measures to contain the spread in secondary are needed then they are lying and our kids deserve a more consistent and sustainable education than they got from September.

Fingers crossed they are more sensible than we have previously seen.

The teacher/s on these types of threads just need to resign. It is very clear you don't want to teach in schools anymore and would happily work from home forever

This is goady nonsense. Why on earth do noble’s thread attract this stuff? 🤦🏻‍♀️

motherrunner because the most vulnerable people have been vaccinated. I’m not going to bother telling you the statistics about who this virus mostly effects as you should know that by now.

It was never on the cards for everyone to be vaccinated before the return to school. If we went off that we can wave good bye to the rest of the academic year.

meh Primary schools are already half opened - or have a lot more than 50% attendance

Either shut them to non-critical workers and people working from home

or open them fully

Anything in-between is just a joke, and damaging the children

Am I wrong assuming that most of those advocating ‘all school for some etc’ are not parents of those school years that this will deny in-school learning to?

Mine’s Y3. So didn’t go back in June last year and if it’s a phased return to certain year groups (most likely not Y3) would not be going back again.

If they wanted to reduce numbers in primary I would prefer she went back in on a rota than not back in at all.

@KittensTeaAndCake and @SPRINGTIMEBLUEBELLS

1. As a parent, can I ask you to stop telling teachers to resign. We need them!

1. Why do posters with the cutesiest usernames post this poisonous nonsense?

1. Do you not have anything more coherent to contribute to the discussion?

“After Easter’ has become the new September. I honestly think parents who want schools to reopen would be a lot more understanding or accepting of the narrative to defer schools coming back if there wasn’t a huge sense of dejavu. I know I would. I honestly don’t think schools will ever be ‘safe’ enough now for the majority of (the same) posters on here/on all other school/lifting lockdown threads

Disgusted that a teacher can say how she wants to ...flush out asymptomatic pupils.... Pupils are children, they are not vermin to be "flushed out". Get a grip, the risk is low for the non elderly/non shielding.

For those saying their schools had very low or no cases, don’t forget that for a long period, it was very difficult to get a Covid test for children as the majority do not have the same symptoms as adults do. Many parents at the school I teach at would not get their child tested as they didn’t have one of the three main symptoms.

Even by November, I had to lie about my child’s symptoms to get a Covid test. My child’s only symptoms were a rash. I had to lie and also say there was a fever as well. A member of my Year 12 form was part of a weekly testing trial and tested positive that way with no symptoms at all.

It needs to be acknowledged that many positive cases in children were going unnoticed for a big chunk of last term. Whilst those positive cases may not have been harmful to that child, it may have contributed to the rises in cases overall and was a perfect environment for the possibility of new variants.

www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3484

Schools are safe for the vast majority. As most vulnerable people have now been vaccinated and everyone believes they are safe and effective, there is no reason for children to be stuck at home any longer.

@AhFiddledeedee

The schools need to be reopened.

The most vulnerable groups have been vaccinated now. I do think teachers should be upped in the priority list.

Children have already lost nearly a year of "proper" school. Teachers are doing their best, but it is absolutely not the same. For ones that already struggled, or dont have the means to access technology they may never catch up.

Enough is enough now.

Absolutely agree with you. We have been saving the old for the last year. Time to save the young now.

It’s a tale of two children for me. Both are I. 6th form, one at a school, one at a college.

I am desperate for them to return. Ds in particular does not cope well with home learning and Dd I start struggling with WiFi issues in her live, practical lessons.

However last term Dd in school was in a constant state of anxiety. After it being drilled into her about social distancing, having issues with grandparents in poor health etc she was expected to go into school and have no distancing, singing in enclosed spaces, kids hugging, crowded corridors etc etc.

No wonder covid ripped through her school. Several teachers and students were quite poorly (I think year 7-11 had mild cases but at least one lad in 6th form is still suffering the effects.

Numerous cases, isolations and just general lack of mitigation had a huge effect on her mental health.

Ds attends college. I know they don’t have the younger students that schools do but they do have a large programme for Sen students. The college were allowed to put in place the kind of mitigation’s Noble is asking for. My son was annoyed about the 1 week in, 1week odd blended learning but it was consistent, social distancing was strictly enforced, tjete was space to do so with half in at a time. His bubble for practical work on his ensemble music module was 4 students. Compared with my daughter’s bubble of 30 for an ensemble class.

There were a handful of cases and some students did have to isolate. But nothing like what was happening in the schools. The college were also able to pilot rapid result testing. It wasn’t totally safe, but we felt pretty confident.

So yes, schools should return ASAP. But proper, serious mitigation’s MUST be put in place.

@HeadSpin5

Am I wrong assuming that most of those advocating ‘all school for some etc’ are not parents of those school years that this will deny in-school learning to? Deny again, I should say.

My now-Y4 only, unfortunate enough to also be the child of two working parents (but not KW), shoved to the bottom of the primary pile. Again. Double-screwed over last year when DC’s school had space to bring more back but chose Y5 rather than rotas for all - that was hard enough to swallow but in doing so it pulled their teacher off remote support as he had to go teach said year. Y3/4 may not be considered as important as early years but hone schooling this age group is extremely challenging even when NOT trying to with FT at the same time. They cannot work sufficiently independently and I know from talking to my friends that my DC is not alone at needing constant prodding or guidance to do the work - and DC is actually one of the more motivated ones.

I can’t remember the name but there was a teacher poster on here who has advocated for this group before, pointing out the sheer number of weeks lost already - phasing years back will only add to this. I appreciate part time rotas (if not all in) won’t help some working parents but equally, phased return by year doesn’t help others or their children.

I have a child in year 4. (currently playing a melodica in my ear. Christmas carols for some reason).

I would love her to be able to go back, but when it is not going to cause problems with a surge in infections.

Till then, Away in a Manger through the house it is.

@noblegiraffe

Am I wrong assuming that most of those advocating ‘all school for some etc’ are not parents of those school years that this will deny in-school learning to?

Mine’s Y3. So didn’t go back in June last year and if it’s a phased return to certain year groups (most likely not Y3) would not be going back again.

If they wanted to reduce numbers in primary I would prefer she went back in on a rota than not back in at all.

My children are in Yr 2 and 6.

My son (although Yr 1 last summer) couldn’t go back as there wasn’t enough space between Yr 6 and reception who they prioritised.

My children’s primary have NEVER offered live lessons. They have 3 tasks set a day. I have never complained as I know they have a good foundation - we read a lot at home, play board games, do jigsaws, go on walks and takes about what we see. People underestimate the power of general knowledge and good communication.

Can I just mention in the last YouGov poll 37% of respondents wanted schools to fully reopen and 38% didn't. Neither 'loudest voices'/ 'fanclub'/ whatever on MN is in the majority, moral or otherwise, despite thinking they are.

Totally agree with you @HeadSpin5!

@noblegiraffe thank you for your reply, same boat then! My comment though was more to other posters advocating return of only KS1 and Y6 again, it really (really) stings how KS2 are just never talked about, as if their years and learning are irrelevant.

I would really love schools to open in March but I just don't think it is realistic or safe. I think that they should allow GCSE and A level years in on a rota basis (so not allow of the year each day) and allow Primary schools in on a fortnightly rota for socialisation only.

@Linearpark

Disgusted that a teacher can say how she wants to ...flush out asymptomatic pupils.... Pupils are children, they are not vermin to be "flushed out". Get a grip, the risk is low for the non elderly/non shielding.

You are reading too much into this. No one has called children vermin. Apart from you, effectively.

@AhFiddledeedee

The schools need to be reopened.

The most vulnerable groups have been vaccinated now. I do think teachers should be upped in the priority list.

Children have already lost nearly a year of "proper" school. Teachers are doing their best, but it is absolutely not the same. For ones that already struggled, or dont have the means to access technology they may never catch up.

Enough is enough now.

Totally agree with this.

My personal additions would be:
Devolve more power to local authorities. It makes no sense to treat rural/city schools all the same, and it’s infuriating to get caught by a blanket policy when you know cases are up in your area and it would be sensible for schools to be closed. Greenwich council knew what they were about before Christmas. They knew it was right to close and they were proved completely right by events. The government should be listening to LEAs, who are more likely to be scrutinising their own data not having to look at the big picture.

Secondly: rethink school holidays. Now is the time to overhaul the system of a superlong summer holiday. Extend half terms to two weeks everywhere, they’re still only one in some places. Stay in school longer in the warmer weather where it’s easier to ventilate and cases are likely to be down anyway.

I agree with the OP, but I don’t want primary to go back just as before, ‘because childcare’. I know it’s difficult having small children at home, so vaccinate the staff and do it sensibly.

@Indoctro

You do realise one case in over 1000 was just luck, not due to the school being Covid safe, right? Or do you seriously not know how this works?

I have skin in the game. My dd is in secondary but I don’t want her in schools if they aren’t safe for the staff. I am appalled that the government will not vaccinate teachers / support staff and is now on a campaign that schools are safe. The police is another example, where priorities are skewed.

There was a thread the other day from someone young, possibly in their 20’s with no underlying condition, who had been called to attend an appointment. Another person came back saying they had too. Why oh why are staff like teachers and police officers etc not being called in those/that area(s) first?

@AlwaysMoreCoffee

My personal additions would be: Devolve more power to local authorities. It makes no sense to treat rural/city schools all the same, and it’s infuriating to get caught by a blanket policy when you know cases are up in your area and it would be sensible for schools to be closed. Greenwich council knew what they were about before Christmas. They knew it was right to close and they were proved completely right by events. The government should be listening to LEAs, who are more likely to be scrutinising their own data not having to look at the big picture.

Secondly: rethink school holidays. Now is the time to overhaul the system of a superlong summer holiday. Extend half terms to two weeks everywhere, they’re still only one in some places. Stay in school longer in the warmer weather where it’s easier to ventilate and cases are likely to be down anyway.

Not ideal for those in Labour strongholds who tend to side with the unions in their efforts to undermine the government, at children's expense.

because the most vulnerable people have been vaccinated

Not all have no and certainly, not all will have had the second dose by then.

Ruth Rankine, director of the NHS Confederation's PCN Network of GP practices, paid tribute to the "incredible accomplishment" but added that "until everyone is protected, no one is protected".

"There is still work to do to administer first doses to all the remaining people from the first four cohorts, as well as moving down the cohorts until everyone has at least been offered a jab, not to mention beginning the work of administering second doses," she said.

@Linearpark

Disgusted that a teacher can say how she wants to ...flush out asymptomatic pupils.... Pupils are children, they are not vermin to be "flushed out". Get a grip, the risk is low for the non elderly/non shielding.

Individual risk is low but you are ignoring the risk to the wider community of unmitigated covid spread that could potentially undermine the vaccination program.

Also ‘flush out’ really reaching there.