Anti-lockdown campaigners using children to push their agenda

[noblegiraffe]

I can't be the only one disgusted with how certain groups are using faux concern about children to push the earliest dismantling of lockdown restrictions.

They are loudly catastrophising on the front pages of the press about our kids. The lost generation. £40,000 in lost earnings. Articles about schools full of traumatised kids suffering PTSD caused by lockdown.

And the solution they propose is always to re-open schools as early as possible. Even before March 8th. Regardless of covid.

Now, the situation in schools before Christmas was awful. Some areas of the country had less than 50% attendance due to the new variant ripping through secondary schools. Secondary school kids were the most infected subset of the population by far, and are now the second least infected subset of the population behind the 70+ age group after schools were closed, demonstrating that there was a massive problem with transmission in secondary schools. It wasn't good for pupils' mental health or education to be in a situation when they didn't know if they'd be in school or out at the drop of a hat. But before Christmas, there was complete media silence on the impact that this was having on children.

CAMHS has been devastated by cuts. Waiting lists are intolerable and children in dire need of support don't even qualify. Same for social care around vulnerable children.

Yet you won't hear these people clamouring for schools re-opening as soon as possible talking at all about how to improve safety measures in schools to prevent the scenario we had before Christmas happening again. You won't hear them demanding more funding for children's mental health services and for more support for social care services.

And the reason you won't hear that is that THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

The reason that they want schools re-opened as quickly as possible is because the message was that schools had to open first.

They can't get what they really want open (everything else) until schools are open, hence the massive focus on schools and how terrible things are for children.

This catastrophising isn't good for parents or kids. It's scaremongering and unhelpful.

I know that there are kids (and parents) really struggling with their mental health and worried about their education. Blaring out messages about how terrible things are and how they will never recover because you want to hype up the message about schools going back is irresponsible and sickening.

We need sensible and calm conversations about how to support children and parents. We need funding for schools and massive investment in support services. We need a long-term program of recovery, not 9 months of a Catch-Up Tsar and quick fixes. We need a measured and sensible approach to schools re-opening that won't see kids in and out and in and out due to lack of mitigation measures causing rampant covid spread (particularly with the new variant).

We need these anti-lockdown campaigners to shut up and stop dominating the narrative.

@HesterShaw1

Data has shown again and again antibodies in the general population at around 10%

And hasn't data shown again and again that antibodies are not the only source of immunity? And that many people do not even get the disease at all, let alone ill?

I don’t believe any studies have been run yet on the T cell response following COVID infection and whether it is long lasting. We can’t make an assumption like that without hard data. Most other coronaviruses do not give long term immunity after all.

Noble doesn’t want to teach kids that she is paid to teach. She’s one of those teachers that doesn’t want to do the job she’s paid for under the guise of keeping safe. I expect she actually from the NEU itself and uses Mumsnet to whip up her hysteria and agree that kids should never go back. @Redbrickwall

What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. Seriously, I can't understand that some people can be so bullying and vile.

Let's face it: we all want kids back in school. Kids are struggling. Parents are struggling. I'm a teacher and absolutely hate my job right now. It's not teaching. And it's horrible seeing my pupils, and my own kids, sink before my eyes (mentally- not academically).

BUT, we have over 100,000 people dead. 100,000. Purely from ridiculous mistakes made by the government. I had it myself, as did my whole family, and wouldn't wish it on anybody. It's a freakishly scary virus to have. Why on earth they didn't close schools before xmas is beyond me. My school had 17 teachers off at one time, and 3 yr groups off self isolating. We had over 20 cases in two weeks. I know this wasn't the case everywhere, but it certainly was in some areas. If we had have done the lockdowns properly in the first place, and closed the schools at the right time, we wouldn't have been virtually the only country in Europe in full lockdown for the whole of Jan and Feb.

If we want to get kids back in to school in the LONG TERM, we need to do it properly. Otherwise they'll be back at home by May. Learn from the mistakes made. Stop stamping your feet screaming for the kids to back when all it's going to do it is make the situation worse.

The irony is that the majority of those screaming for child protections are the very people who supported a government that slashed child services to nothing. It's all very Julia Hartley Brewer.

Given that 89% of people who are at risk of death have now been vaccinated (well, offered) and 99% will be by the end of group 6, I think we are in a much safer position. I don’t think it’s helpful to compare to November/December when barely anyone was vaccinated.
Deaths are one thing, hospitalisations and severe illness are another. Don’t for a minute think that recovery after being hospitalised with COVID is a walk in the park.

@EarlGreywithLemon

Given that 89% of people who are at risk of death have now been vaccinated (well, offered) and 99% will be by the end of group 6, I think we are in a much safer position. I don’t think it’s helpful to compare to November/December when barely anyone was vaccinated. Deaths are one thing, hospitalisations and severe illness are another. Don’t for a minute think that recovery after being hospitalised with COVID is a walk in the park.

@EarlGreywithLemon

I definitely don’t. That was me and I am clinically extremely vulnerable. I don’t think we should just open up schools and throw caution to the wind but I still think it’s incomparable to a few months ago.

By May all the at risk groups will have been vaccinated so no we won’t have any more school closures. They’ll probably do away with bubbles too.
Then we’ll have summer and warmer weather on our side...

HesterShaw1

And given that you apparently missed the first question, well done you.

And why should I ignore your snipe at teachers?

I’m not denying the government made mistakes but we now have a successful vaccine program so everything looks very different thankfully.

I’m sorry to hear Haenow, I hope you’re feeling better now. Unfortunately a lot of people do think we should just go ahead and open up, with no mitigations. Not your case, of course, but many underestimate the potential consequences of getting sick with this virus too.

I for one am sick of the "will someone please think of the children?!" posts and the headlines screaming that the children at home are damaged, mental health destroyed, forgotten etc. Some of us have no choice but to keep our children at home or we will die! How do you think that makes us feel when we see "children NEED to be in school", "they have suffered enough", "we must put them first". I'm just over here trying not to die but people seem hell bent on making me feel like I've damaged and failed my child. FYI, she's having the time of her life.

How dare you equate my wanting childhood to be a normal experience with wanting to go to the pub. I want to prevent unnecessary mental health issues caused by not allowing children to play and learn normally. My daughter is 9 and never needed interventions before they made it illegal to play with her friends. She's now addicted to minecraft and roblox. Your safer schools sound the opposite of healthy environments and if you actually cared about children you'd want normality for them too. I know my daughter's teacher just wants them all back. She wants happy children who learn.

@Igglepigglepeppaandgeorge

I dont want my kids washing their hands unless they have just been to the toilet or they are about to eat. Hand sanitizer every hour to protect against an airborne disease is ridiculous.

Ewww, my sister is like this and her kids constantly get worms

@EllenRipley

Your post is militant and hysterical, OP, and is as worthy of the same kind of dismissal that you're screeching for.

We don't need people like you in any discussion or debate concerning what, at this stage, is best for anyone, let alone children.

Many people on here disagree with you. It is most certainly not hysterical. Any parent asking for dismissal of a discussion about better outcomes for all our children should be ashamed of themselves.

@HesterShaw1

It seems to me that it's a bit disingenuous to accuse people only caring about mental health of children and the underinvestment in schools in the last year. I used to teach (and incidentally it was so full on that I barely had time to scratch my arse let alone spend my days creating posts on MN). I cared about those things then, and I still care about them. I had a class of 34 Y6 children in a classroom better suited to 25 Y4s. It was a squash.

You are saying that teachers should not go back to proper classes until your list of requests has been met, and this includes more investment in buildings to make them fit your definition of safety. This is as well as the continuing successful rollout of the vaccination programme and therefore the reduction of the scale of infections and hospitalisations? I imagine very few people don't want better designed buildings, more space, better ventilation. I should think everyone would be all for these things.

How long will this take to achieve, and what happens to children and their wellbeing in the meantime?

Completely agree. Schools are what they are. If teachers don't want to work in them they need not hold children's education hostage.

Teaching unions calling parents political when the unions fund and have voting rights in the Labour Party is a joke. They have cosy cuppas with welsh politicians while deciding just how miserable they'll make our children.

BUT, we have over 100,000 people dead. 100,000. Purely from ridiculous mistakes made by the government.

But this simply isn't true is it? So many of these people were very elderly, and if they hadn't died of, for example, pneumonia and covid, they would have died of just the pneumonia. Pretending otherwise is ludicrous. You're telling me their deaths at 82 years old (again, for example) is "purely from ridiculous mistakes made by the government"? Tom Moore's, with his pneumonia and cancer, is included in the covid deaths. Aged one hundred.

And no, of course I don't mean that everyone who has died of covid "would have died anyway because they were in their last year of life".

@EarlGreywithLemon CEV are in group 4. Young, healthy people with no underlying health conditions are a very small percentage of people in hospital.

Just heard on bbc that evidence is emerging from Israel that although vaccinated hospitalization rates are dropping, the unvaccinated hospitalization rates are increasing. Of course there will be unknown variables on this statement but it does give food for thought.

. we still don't have any proof that you're immune once you've had it.

Yes we do. There have been several studies done now showing that antibodies persist in over 80% of people for over 6-8+ months (based on available data). They expect it to last longer. And that’s antibodies, not even taking T cell immunity into account. It’s what actually gave the scientists hope about being able to produce a successful vaccine (the effectiveness of which is also based on measuring antibodies)

@GiveMeNovocain I'm fine working in schools, have done since '95 just a little thing about a global pandemic is putting a bit of a dampener on it at the moment.

I think what we all want is a properly planned return that does not lead to another spike and another lockdown.

A big bang approach of all being back at once may lead to a surge in cases.

I want Whitty and the gang to draw up a properly phased plan that we can all follow which leads to a permanent return. That way we can say to our children that there will be no more lockdowns.

If it means that shops, pubs, and restaurants cant reopen until some time after half term then so be it.

GiveMeNovocain

Completely agree. Schools are what they are.

yet they don't have to be and could be much safer.

If teachers don't want to work in them they need not hold children's education hostage.

I don't know any teachers that don't want to work, or any that think the best place for learning isn't in school.

What Most teachers that I know want is for the return to be sustainable and long term.

This is not holding the children's education hostage. Only an idiot would see it as such.

@Staffdontblowitnow absolutely

Excess deaths is the measure you're looking for - the amount who died above and beyond "expected" and the figure for that is close to 70000. A huge number.

@GiveMeNovocain

How dare you equate my wanting childhood to be a normal experience with wanting to go to the pub. I want to prevent unnecessary mental health issues caused by not allowing children to play and learn normally. My daughter is 9 and never needed interventions before they made it illegal to play with her friends. She's now addicted to minecraft and roblox. Your safer schools sound the opposite of healthy environments and if you actually cared about children you'd want normality for them too. I know my daughter's teacher just wants them all back. She wants happy children who learn.

I, and most of my colleagues, ‘want’ to be back teaching normally. I’d say that is true of all teachers actually. I’d say most people also ‘want’ this pandemic to not be happening. I’d also ‘want’ to see family and friends etc.. However what people ‘want’ and what is ‘right’ for the situation as a whole are not the same thing.

The point of this OP is that some people (not all) who are shouting for schools to return as normal, no mitigation’s are suddenly claiming this is because they care so much about children’s mental health which frankly in some cases is absolute bollocks. Of course there are parents who cared before, parents who are genuinely worried about their children, they are not who the thread is about.

@Ahmnotacat

Children need to be out mixing & catching illnesses to train their immune systems, that is why it's always known the kids are germ breeders. If you didnt know this, or dont like this, I would suggest teaching isnt for you.

When, before this pandemic, have you ever heard teachers complaining about schools being a hotbed of viruses? I haven't. But they're bloody well allowed to complain about a virus that could leave them long-term disabled or kill them. Or spread out into the community and do the same. That doesn't mean teaching isn't for them, it means they're decent humans.

Meningitis? Chickenpox? Flu? All could potentially kill you or leave you with long term disabilities. Unless the teachers are in a vulnerable group then they are at low risk of complications from covid.

The lockdown has had a huge impact upon school children - primary, secondary and sixth formers. The schools may have been less than full in the phase between lockdown partly as children were told to self isolate who knows whether how real the risk was on any of the circumstances. In my view society and those of school age have had their lives put on hold - who knows what long term damage will result.