Venting about family and friends not sticking to rules thread

[nanbread]

I'm feeling pissed off because I want this to end, but I know so many people of all ages and backgrounds who aren't sticking to Covid rules, and I feel like this sort of behaviour is prolonging us coming out of lockdown.

PIL have regular dinner dates (2/3 per week) with different people each time.

Friends and family members are going to each other's houses because they don't like walks. And not just locally either - in some cases traveling 50/60 miles to see friends.

Friends of my DC are having birthday parties inviting others - just slightly smaller ones, at home.

I'm not talking about people who are lonely or in MH crisis who need some human contact. I understand this situation is horrible, I hate it, and I don't blame them for wanting to socialise, but I'm annoyed that it is potentially costing my children more weeks and months off school, costing me more of my career, making me wait longer for a happier life.

@stampsurprise

I understand why you’re angry OP.

But for the sake of your MH and blood pressure, you need to find a way of making peace with the fact some people won’t do as you think they should.

Or you could be angry for a very long time.

Thanks, I'm not actually angry at them, more irritated and fed up.

@Shelovesamystery you may wish to refer to the post I made before you posted where I said I was more angry at the govt.

Totally agree with op, people breaking the rules and government lifting restrictions too soon just prolong this situation. Australia had a lot of pissed off people who thought the government was being too cautious but look at them now, apart from international travel their lives are back to normal. Opening things up too soon, and people taking no notice of the rules just means there will be more peaks in case numbers and more restrictions.

@ClaudiaWankleman
But you see it's exactly because restrictions were lifted too soon in summer 2020 and people started risky behaviour mixing with friends etc, eat out to help out etc that we ended up with this massive second wave and aren't any further forward now . If the gov had held their nerve and kept restrictions in place longer, then case numbers would have dropped a lot more and we wouldn't be in such a bad place now. I blame the gov more than people breaking the rules, ignoring scientists saying to expect a second wave.

Our response to the pandemic has to be made up of more than just chasing zero COVID. We have to consider the economic, educational and other health aspects of repeated lockdowns.

And you honestly think that it isn’t?

What i find interesting about these threads is that some people, like the OP seem to be totally surrounded by people in their lives who are breaking the rules - not just one relative but all their relatives and all their friends etc and then there are people like me who doesn't know anyone at all who is breaking the rules. My friends are all doing the 'walk outside with one friend', go to the shops for food when needed, wear a mask when required (and wear it correctly). Honestly, if I decided I wanted to have a couple of friends over to my house for coffee I am absolutely sure I wouldn't be able to find anyone who would agree to it.

I wonder why it seems to be all or nothing?
And my circle of family friends aren't particular rule followers - most of them still working outside the house, doing childcare duties when required etc.

But you see it's exactly because restrictions were lifted too soon in summer 2020 and people started risky behaviour mixing with friends etc, eat out to help out etc that we ended up with this massive second wave and aren't any further forward now

I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think that is a fact, I think it’s (maybe reasoned) estimation. In fact, cases where I am starting spiking during a lockdown and continued throughout. It seems only to have been the effect of vaccinations which lowered case rates, lockdown or not.

Additionally, there are other countries around the world who haven’t had severe lockdowns the way we have, whose case rates have remained significantly lower. That’s good evidence for me that we shouldn’t continue lock downs in the future - they don’t have enough effect on the virus.

Additionally, the other effects of lockdown, economic, social, educational, other aspects of health, now outweighs (for me) the virus suppression.

I also don't know anyone repeatedly breaking rules. I think I know about a tiny number of exceptional rule-breaking that happened for between 20 minutes & 2 hours on a single occasion to... 3 households? Almost nothing in last year.

My instincts are against Lockdown because it's fundamentally unsustainable. But I guess I was wrong... people will sustain this. And even greater economic pain. Some loud people are enthusiastic about making the economic pain last for many years longer & go much deeper. Who knew the Brits could be so masochistic?

@yeOldeTrout I'm glad to hear of someone else not knowing others doing the persistent rule breaking some on this thread are admitting and describing as commonplace.

@DuchessofHastings1 nobody knows the survival rate for Covid but the magic '99.8%' is one commonly chucked around by deniers/minimisers. Since you are so sure you are not one of those, you might want to check your sources

@99victoria

What i find interesting about these threads is that some people, like the OP seem to be totally surrounded by people in their lives who are breaking the rules - not just one relative but all their relatives and all their friends etc and then there are people like me who doesn't know anyone at all who is breaking the rules. My friends are all doing the 'walk outside with one friend', go to the shops for food when needed, wear a mask when required (and wear it correctly). Honestly, if I decided I wanted to have a couple of friends over to my house for coffee I am absolutely sure I wouldn't be able to find anyone who would agree to it.

I wonder why it seems to be all or nothing?
And my circle of family friends aren't particular rule followers - most of them still working outside the house, doing childcare duties when required etc.

It's not all my friends and family, most are still sticking to it I'd say.

I have noticed a correlation however, and it's the people who are most privileged who are mostly breaking the rules, plus a few conspiracy theorists.

Totally agree OP.

Those of us that are sticking to the rules are having to for longer because others are not. Some people seem to think that socialising is their right and it trumps everything else. Each extra contact is an extra chance for transmission and if everyone was doing what the F they wanted the restrictions would need to go on even longer.

When the history books are written about this, which they will be, at least you can look back and know you did your bit. You will be able to tell future generations you did you very best to protect others.

All we can do is our best. We can’t control others.

I feel it too OP.

[quote Ethelfromnumber73]@DuchessofHastings1 nobody knows the survival rate for Covid but the magic '99.8%' is one commonly chucked around by deniers/minimisers. Since you are so sure you are not one of those, you might want to check your sources[/quote]
I'm going by information it is in public health. Correlation between cases and admissions compared to death rates but I agree no one knows this for absolute certain.
Just as when we have 115 000 deaths flung around to scare us all into submission, we dont know for certain know that Covid actually contributed to all of these deaths just because they tested positive for it.

@Flaxmeadow

I am under no illusion that lockdowns work. They have lowered cases. If it was short term, I agree. That's why I have been keeping the rules until last month. Its short term solution.

But what if, and please dont accuse me of being a "doom monger", I'm heartily sick of name calling, what if at the moment and in the next few years that is the only way to keep our services functioning?

What would be your alternative?

We have been doing this now for a year, a fucking year. How long can we keep this up?

I dont know the answer to that, no one does

We have vaccines now, with high efficiency rates. There has to be a point where enough is enough.

We do not how the virus is going to mutate. It is an unprecedented situation. It is a new coronavirus and it is extremely strong and adaptable

That point is May once the above 50s are vaccinated who are nearly 99% of hospital admissions and deaths.

But again, the virus is mutating

We cannot live like this in the long run, it is not sustainable and we have to get on with life and the risk.

Living like this is might be all we can do for now. No one has a crystal ball

I want this virus to fuck off just like everyone else does. I want it to just disappear in a puff of smoke. I want people to stop dying or getting disabilities. I want children back at school. I want to be able to see relatives. I want a functioning economy and services but we are still in a learning situation and my whining and complaining is not going to change that. All I can do is trust the science, and lockdown is still a big part of that science, so as hard as it is, I will try my best to comply with scientific advice

We know its mutating, like any viruses do. That's why scientists are now working their bums off to come up with booster jabs, like they do pretty much every year for the flu. I have every faith in them. They have produced vaccines with such high efficiency rates for a new unknown virus in less than a year. I'm optimistic they can come up with booster jabs for the variants.

If in the next few years, we determines how services are functioning, well they'll be fucked wont they. The NHS has been under strain for years. Cut, threats of privatisation and so on. When did it become the public's responsibility to save the NHS? we have cut our lives off a year now, we have done our bit. People shouldn't be cornered into feeling guilty and scared and have such sacrifices.

Even if Covid is the worst thing out there and it's like in the movie Contagion where people are dying spitting blood some people on here would think it is the way they go on I honestly think people dont give a shit any more.

People are looking at their lifes, their children's lifes and weighing things up. The possiblity of getting Covid, being in hospitalised or dying because is not out weighing the certainty of their low mental health, financial situation, not seeing family and worried for their children's MH, education and future.

In terms of our needs as human beings, physical safety is one of the core needs. Without physical safety, other needs can’t be met and as beings with a survival instinct that’s just as powerful as any other animal, if we do not feel physically safe, it’s hard to focus on much else.

If rates go up and hospitals are swamped, it effects their ability to provide care - emergency or otherwise. We have a finite number of drs, nurses, paramedics etc to offer the level of care we have become used to in our, mostly comfortable lives.

In hospitals, there has to be a focus firstly on emergency and urgent care. Threat to life has to come first.

If we just let the virus run it’s course this means the pressure on the NHS will leave us all at greater risk. Imagine getting Covid and not being able to breathe but no ambulance in sight, imagine being in a car accident with your leg bleeding out and no ambulance in sight, imagine discovering a lump but waiting lists are years long because nurses and doctors have had to be re-deployed to more urgent care wards. This is the known reality if we let the virus run. This puts us all at risk and undermines our physical safety no matter what age, race, Socio-economic group.

Education, leisure and even mental health are secondary to the need to have a functioning NHS to provide us all with the healthcare that protects our physical safety. If we keep rates down then we can still benefit from that safety net.

Protecting the NHS isn’t protecting some organisation - it’s about protecting us all!

@Msmcc1212 it is been like that on and off for years. Continous headlines of staff shortages, people dying waiting for an ambulance, long waits for GP appointments, A&E overwhelmed, doctors and nurses asleep in the corridors etc.
Maybe if the government didn't pour millions, probably billions actually, into a useless track and trace system and put the money into nurses bursaries etc, then maybe they would have better handling of this.

Complaining online about people having visitors over was definitely not on my list of ways I want to spend this year.

[quote DuchessofHastings1]@Msmcc1212 it is been like that on and off for years. Continous headlines of staff shortages, people dying waiting for an ambulance, long waits for GP appointments, A&E overwhelmed, doctors and nurses asleep in the corridors etc.
Maybe if the government didn't pour millions, probably billions actually, into a useless track and trace system and put the money into nurses bursaries etc, then maybe they would have better handling of this.[/quote]
Having spoken to friends who work in hospitals as drs and nurses in different parts of the country, while the NHS is under strain every winter they are telling me it's significantly worse this winter than in previous years. The NHS has been criminally underfunded, understaffed and poorly managed but we can't magically change that overnight.

@faerin

Complaining online about people having visitors over was definitely not on my list of ways I want to spend this year.

Was posting online about people complaining online on there?

@nanbread then it's a good job we have a vaccine. It will lower cases in the next couple of months. Hopefully this winter wont be much worse and the government pours money into NHS than useless shit.

I'm wondering where all these people saying we've been in lockdown for a year are living, because unless you're in Leicester, you're talking bollocks.

DuchessofHastings1

I’m afraid to say that this is nothing like it has been in my nearly 30 years of working for the NHS. The field hospitals are one very obvious example. I know people who work in employee well being and there has never been the level of need as there is now.

There is the issue of simple numbers. So on ICU the staff to patient ratio had changed so that they can increase capacity. That means the usual standard of care can’t be provided. This has an impact not just on patient experience but on staff too in terms of the moral injury.

It is human beings that work for the NHS. Most are amazing and incredibly resilient but that will only go so far. Imagine having to deal with five deaths in a day. Then more the next and the next. It doesn’t take long for people to get burnt out. Some will retire early. Some will leave for other jobs. Some will go off sick. Even if you don’t give a monkeys about them as human beings - this will have an impact in how we are all cared for if we get sick or have an accident.

Not seeing family and friends, not going to the pub, not going on holiday, learning at home (with the exception of those who are more vulnerable in some way) is hardly a hardship when you compare it to what others are going through. It is tough but it’s not traumatising.