Venting about family and friends not sticking to rules thread

[nanbread]

I'm feeling pissed off because I want this to end, but I know so many people of all ages and backgrounds who aren't sticking to Covid rules, and I feel like this sort of behaviour is prolonging us coming out of lockdown.

PIL have regular dinner dates (2/3 per week) with different people each time.

Friends and family members are going to each other's houses because they don't like walks. And not just locally either - in some cases traveling 50/60 miles to see friends.

Friends of my DC are having birthday parties inviting others - just slightly smaller ones, at home.

I'm not talking about people who are lonely or in MH crisis who need some human contact. I understand this situation is horrible, I hate it, and I don't blame them for wanting to socialise, but I'm annoyed that it is potentially costing my children more weeks and months off school, costing me more of my career, making me wait longer for a happier life.

@Desmondo2016

But people think it's shit that Police deal with all manner of 'lower level' offending. I genuinely don't give a hoot! I have a job to do and I do get satisfaction out of dealing with offenders! It's why I'm a good copper 😄... It takes all sorts and the world (and mumsnet) would be a boring place if we all felt the same!

And no, the patronising wasn't taught in Police School lol, that's all my own 😉

Nobody said it was shit that the police deal with low level crime. What is shit is coming on a public forum and saying you get satisfaction from issuing fines to desperate people on the brink of losing their businesses!

Totally agree Olive.

Its €*ish.

As 40% of spread is in hospitals and they discharged untested patients into care homes maybe save some ire for the people who allowed this to happen rather than the odd inside cuppa

Abso-bloody-lutely.

hopsalong

In a way though, denying lockdown works is a form of covid denial. They do not deny the virus exists, but rather deny the seriousness and strength of this virus and its capability to shatter not just the health services, but other services too.

One of the things I will always remember, and I've mentioned this many times, is when I read an early report from a leading scientist back in March. He said "this virus is stealthy and robust". Then the world started shutting down, tanking economies. It's such a massively serious situation and this is what is being denied

I actually think lockdown is good tried and tested way of dealing with it. I suppose I'm saying in a way that lockdown is good. Hear me out. Yes it's hard, I've had hard times too during lockdown and no I'm not sitting pretty throughout this, as some seem to accuse of doing, but away from peoples personal circumstances, lockdown does work at a community level and without it the situation would be far far worse, including mental health difficulties

I know a couple of people who are clinically diagnosed with serious mental health conditions. Both of them are coping but one thing they are both scared of is people breaking the rules. Because they understand that if health services collapse, then their mental health services would too. Access to medication, to their CPN and so on would be in jeopardy. They agree with lockdown for those reasons

If we didn't have lockdown. The situation would be horrific. So in that sense, the lockdown is good. Hard yes, but the alternative is much worse

@Flaxmeadow I am under no illusion that lockdowns work. They have lowered cases. If it was short term, I agree. That's why I have been keeping the rules until last month. Its short term solution.
We have been doing this now for a year, a fucking year. How long can we keep this up?
We have vaccines now, with high efficiency rates. There has to be a point where enough is enough.
That point is May once the above 50s are vaccinated who are nearly 99% of hospital admissions and deaths.
We cannot live like this in the long run, it is not sustainable and we have to get on with life and the risk.

@Flaxmeadow

hopsalong

In a way though, denying lockdown works is a form of covid denial. They do not deny the virus exists, but rather deny the seriousness and strength of this virus and its capability to shatter not just the health services, but other services too.

One of the things I will always remember, and I've mentioned this many times, is when I read an early report from a leading scientist back in March. He said "this virus is stealthy and robust". Then the world started shutting down, tanking economies. It's such a massively serious situation and this is what is being denied

I actually think lockdown is good tried and tested way of dealing with it. I suppose I'm saying in a way that lockdown is good. Hear me out. Yes it's hard, I've had hard times too during lockdown and no I'm not sitting pretty throughout this, as some seem to accuse of doing, but away from peoples personal circumstances, lockdown does work at a community level and without it the situation would be far far worse, including mental health difficulties

I know a couple of people who are clinically diagnosed with serious mental health conditions. Both of them are coping but one thing they are both scared of is people breaking the rules. Because they understand that if health services collapse, then their mental health services would too. Access to medication, to their CPN and so on would be in jeopardy. They agree with lockdown for those reasons

If we didn't have lockdown. The situation would be horrific. So in that sense, the lockdown is good. Hard yes, but the alternative is much worse

Lockdown works if it's done properly, I agree with that. Other countries have shown that. I believe if we'd done it properly the first time we wouldn't be in this situation. BUT we didn't do it properly and we aren't doing it properly now, so no it doesn't work if it's a half hearted attempt whilst boarders remain open and 'essential' shops and offices are open. It too late, we had our chance and we blew it.

I have a family member who lives in the US. They had a lockdown where the kids missed a few weeks of school initially and then pretty much carry on as normal. They now live totally normal lives. She reported their cases are dropping, I feel they are in the same state as us in relation to COVID without the severe lockdowns we have had.

I am under no illusion that lockdowns work. They have lowered cases. If it was short term, I agree. That's why I have been keeping the rules until last month. Its short term solution.

But what if, and please dont accuse me of being a "doom monger", I'm heartily sick of name calling, what if at the moment and in the next few years that is the only way to keep our services functioning?

What would be your alternative?

We have been doing this now for a year, a fucking year. How long can we keep this up?

I dont know the answer to that, no one does

We have vaccines now, with high efficiency rates. There has to be a point where enough is enough.

We do not how the virus is going to mutate. It is an unprecedented situation. It is a new coronavirus and it is extremely strong and adaptable

That point is May once the above 50s are vaccinated who are nearly 99% of hospital admissions and deaths.

But again, the virus is mutating

We cannot live like this in the long run, it is not sustainable and we have to get on with life and the risk.

Living like this is might be all we can do for now. No one has a crystal ball

I want this virus to fuck off just like everyone else does. I want it to just disappear in a puff of smoke. I want people to stop dying or getting disabilities. I want children back at school. I want to be able to see relatives. I want a functioning economy and services but we are still in a learning situation and my whining and complaining is not going to change that. All I can do is trust the science, and lockdown is still a big part of that science, so as hard as it is, I will try my best to comply with scientific advice

For me, the worst thing is that the government keep changing the goal posts. We were told when the vulnerable and the elderly were vaccinated, then it wouldn't matter if the virus is still circulating as those at risk were protected and the rest of us could get on with our lives. Now they've changed that to the over 50s, and now Twat Hancock has intimated that once the whole adult population is vaccinated then we can get back to normal. It's disproportionate and bordering on unhinged. Why do they keep saying we might need to go into a 4th lockdown if all the vulnerable people have been vaccinated? We've developed a 'prevent death at all costs regardless of age' mentality.

[quote OverTheRainbow88]@ElderlyTruthseeker1942

This must be a joke?! Right?[/quote]
He started a a separate thread on this last night which is gone, so I'm not sure if a troll or what.

It's never been a sustainable solution to expect everyone to follow all the rules 100% for a prolonged period of time. I remember a programme about pandemic I've watched some 2 years ago. One of the assumptions made there which I thought was unrealistic was that hand washing works say 80% if EVERYONE, ALWAYS, 100%, washes their hands more, for 20 sec, using soap and correct technique etc. Everyone, every time. Until it is no longer required. Medication compliance with conditions such as heart disease or high blood pressure is poor, where the consequences of not following rules are personal.

Nikki "Medication compliance with conditions such as heart disease or high blood pressure is poor"

Is it? A lot of People don't take their meds? Very interesting if so.

For me, the worst thing is that the government keep changing the goal posts

I think its more that as new data is available then strategy changes. This is understandable. For example the seriousness of the new variants wasn't known about until not long ago. If they hadn't appeared then strategy would have been different. It was a bit of bad news, but on the plus side, at least they have been found

What studychick81 said.

@Elderlytruthseeker, how incredibly selfish.

The whole 'I don't listen because they're changing the goalposts' argument is so ignorant.

Science involves changing your position based on new information. The virus is new, more information has been gathered as time has gone on, and therefore best practice for responding to it is going to change and evolve as well.

Totally agree studychick.

I have a lot of family in Aus, NZ and the US. Former two are living normal lives because their governments used lockdown properly, and they also have the death rates to show it.

The US is an interesting one because their government response couldn’t have been more of a shit show. They are living fairly normal lives - though not entirely - the school situation doesn’t seem great, but they are all socialising and indeed holidaying normally. And yet our death rate is almost exactly the same as theirs.

It just feels like we got it wrong on every single front.

I only know one family (parents, their adult children, partners and grandchildren) blatantly breaking the rules but they are and always have been as thick as pig shit and are also horribly enmeshed with each other, even in normal times they literally do everything together. They really do think that it won’t happen to them as well, but it’s only a matter of time before their luck runs out, in fact I’m surprised it already hadn’t.

But these are genuinely the only people I know doing it. I think most people are abiding by the rules.

That point is May once the above 50s are vaccinated who are nearly 99% of hospital admissions and deaths.

But again, the virus is mutating

Viruses always mutate, have done since the dawn of time. Hence why the flu vaccine is tweaked every year.

Usually they mutant to become more contagious and less deadly as a virus which kills all its hosts is a crap virus (think ebola). So even if covid mutated more than the 1200 times it already has, this isnt necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it could become a very very good thing.

@LunaHeather
'Is it? A lot of People don't take their meds? Very interesting if so'

Unfortunately, either not taking as prescribed, stopping too early, forgetting etc. so non adherence to restrictions where there is no direct immediate impact on the individual not following the rules does not suprise me.
You can google 'medication adherence rates' esp. in chronic conditions.

The whole 'I don't listen because they're changing the goalposts' argument is so ignorant. Science involves changing your position based on new information. The virus is new, more information has been gathered as time has gone on, and therefore best practice for responding to it is going to change and evolve as well.

What is the ‘scientific’ end goal of lockdown though?

Our response to the pandemic has to be made up of more than just chasing zero COVID. We have to consider the economic, educational and other health aspects of repeated lockdowns. If we blinker ourselves to just thinking about ‘control the virus’ then we are hurting ourselves in other ways.

@Linearpark - anyone quoting JHB has little credibility in my eyes.

To those who doubt any scientist would post their " life's work" on a pm on mumsnet. I have just pm'd one of you who requested it. I can imagine many would not do it, but they are in employment whilst I am retired. All my papers and my thesis are already in the public domain, and I am surprised that a pp claims no scientist would connect anyone on mumsnet with their "life's work". Scientists, particularly biologists, are normally dedicated to open source publication. It is a matter of pride within the scientific community. If the pp's friend's spouse does not publish open source I would question why is that the case? You only have to go on any academic's linkedin or uni profile to find their lifetime publications. The only people who don't make publications available (at the point when the journal allows them to, often immediate 'open source' or after a few months when the journal understandably needs to earn money from subscriptions who will pay for really new stuff) are those who work for pharmaceutical companies as some of them will claim full ownership. I could not provide photo evidence of any kind on pm (no button) so am wondering how to do that. Any ideas gratefully received. Bottom line I am retired and have nothing to lose apart from the freedom of my kids who are at school and uni (not).

For the benefit of anyone interested - I did receive a PM with relevant information from @Linearpark

I don’t suppose you will believe me, but you could always report this post and ask MN if I am a sock puppet for Linear. Their response would validate that I am a separate human telling the truth.

I have no reason to doubt what Linear has written on this thread based on the info received.

With regard to the final point, there are very many scientists who do not follow the Whitty et al. view of this pandemic. It does not surprise me at all that most of these are also retired. Many have been kicked off social media for refusing to toe the line.

Here is an example of scientists getting together, researching and speaking out:

Pandemics Data & Analytics (PANDA) is a multidisciplinary group seeking to inform policy. PANDA considers explanations that allow us to count the human costs of COVID-19 responses globally.

www.pandata.org/

Many thanks Claudia

@namechangefail2020

Honestly can't get over how many dicks are on this thread. The OP wanted a vent and they're basically getting bullied. Cock off you lot!!!

Thank you