We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

There are indeed winter pressures but that is with all other services running. You do know elective surgery and routine stuff has been postponed? Covid is nothing like flu/noro

The NHS has stopped all elective surgery before, i think 4 years ago due to winter pressures.

If we didn't have 110k vacancies and huge reductions in hospital capacity, beds and icu, we'd be better able to cope, even now, with just 28k CV patients, the NHS has collapsed and thats inc having taken over almost all private hospitals to do NHS work.

'was hoping this pandemic would teach us all to be less selfish and entitled, to slow us down and appreciate the simple and important things in life.'

Yes. Suicidal people and those losing business of course I've empathy for. Those with genuine mh problems can access support bubbles. The rest of us need to teach our dc strategies to cope with hardship and try to understand why we are having to live like this. It is not to 'save 90 year olds who are gonna die anyway' 🙄.

Yet again. What government is going to let the virus rip through the community killing loads of people? It would be blood on their hands and political suicide.

The government has already fucked this situation up massively. They could have prevented thousands of deaths by acting sooner last year, or a circuit breaker in the autumn, or not trying to save christmas They do have blood on their hands and yet plenty will still vote for them. There are no consequences for the government. Instead we are turning against one another.

The government needs to tell us ASAP what the strategy actually is. Are we trying to eliminate the virus now, are we locking down until after all over 50s have been vaccinated twice, are we just protecting the NHS? And when can under 50s expect a vaccine if at all? Because we're asking under 50s to make a tremendous sacrifice and currently they haven't even got a vaccine to 'look forward to'

People are fed up with being expected to put blind trust in the government when they have shown themselves unworthy of it

The nation is divided - at least 70% support the lockdowns. Since March 2020 I have been against the mandatory rules but I respect the fact people have very different views on these issues. This is not UK or Tory issue - most countries around the world have decided lockdowns and removal of our basic human rights are a price worth paying. Not surprising as states of all kinds always want more power and there is a science case this time to support them.

Give me freedom or give me death always comes to mind to me however. What is a life if it is in chains?

'The NHS has stopped all elective surgery before, i think 4 years ago due to winter pressures.'

Oh I must've missed that, all elective surgery nationally paused for months? ICUs springing up all over hospitals. Staff redeployed from many other areas to assist with the ICU surge?

No. You may have had knee ops cancelled here and there as there wasn't a bed but nothing remotely like on this scale, so to liken it to flu/noro pressures is utter twaddle.

What strategy should I teach my DC to cope without education? What strategy to teach young children to socialise properly when it is forbidden?

What strategy do you recommend to teach those in their 30s to come to terms with childlessness and not meeting a partner as it is illegal?

These are permanently life-altering sacrifices they are asked to make to save the elderly.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'The NHS has stopped all elective surgery before, i think 4 years ago due to winter pressures.'

Oh I must've missed that, all elective surgery nationally paused for months? ICUs springing up all over hospitals. Staff redeployed from many other areas to assist with the ICU surge?

No. You may have had knee ops cancelled here and there as there wasn't a bed but nothing remotely like on this scale, so to liken it to flu/noro pressures is utter twaddle.

Actually Edinburgh University Hospital had more hospital beds taken with seasonal respiratory conditions last winter than this one. Not sure about the other main hospitals as funnily enough the stats are extremely hard to find.

Just saying.

People keep talking about ‘long covid’ affecting young people and that this should be another reason to keep shielding.
Some of us suffer from ME/CFS already, mine stemmed from a flu/virus I had around 4 years ago. But, we’ve not had to hide before. Unfortunately, it is a way of life and a side effect of contracting a bad virus. Not just covid.
This life is no life and we need an end date.

@hastingsandchips

Yet again. What government is going to let the virus rip through the community killing loads of people? It would be blood on their hands and political suicide.

The government has already fucked this situation up massively. They could have prevented thousands of deaths by acting sooner last year, or a circuit breaker in the autumn, or not trying to save christmas They do have blood on their hands and yet plenty will still vote for them. There are no consequences for the government. Instead we are turning against one another.

The government needs to tell us ASAP what the strategy actually is. Are we trying to eliminate the virus now, are we locking down until after all over 50s have been vaccinated twice, are we just protecting the NHS? And when can under 50s expect a vaccine if at all? Because we're asking under 50s to make a tremendous sacrifice and currently they haven't even got a vaccine to 'look forward to'

People are fed up with being expected to put blind trust in the government when they have shown themselves unworthy of it

All under 50 adults can all expect the first dose of the vaccine by September. This has been said many times now.

These are permanently life-altering sacrifices they are asked to make to save the elderly.

It’s never been about saving the elderly.

It’s always been about stopping the NHS from crumbling. Always. NHS overwhelmed? Govt voted out at next election.

The propaganda is designed to make you think it’s about protecting the elderly. It’s not.

@Dustyboots

But this is about our health care system' s ability to cope

Whose fault is it that our NHS cannot cope?

All governments over the last 40 years! That's who.

All under 50 adults can all expect the first dose of the vaccine by September. This has been said many times now

So lockdown for the whole year?

Rather die.

All under 50 adults can all expect the first dose of the vaccine by September. This has been said many times now.

I'll believe that when I see it. There needs to be second doses for all the over 50s, and then when the virus mutates, there will be a new vaccine to be rolled out for next autumn.

In any case, are under 50s being asked to stay in until September or what? How about under 18s who aren't getting the vaccine but are having to miss school, exams cancelled, all the important experiences of their formative years cancelled?

The attitude towards young people in our country has always seemed to be that they don't really matter. It doesn't matter if they can't eat properly because their parents can't afford it, it doesn't matter if they are getting abused in the home, it doesn't matter if they miss years of their education, can't go anywhere, can't see friends or interact or have a life of their own.

@Motherdare

These are permanently life-altering sacrifices they are asked to make to save the elderly.

It’s never been about saving the elderly.

It’s always been about stopping the NHS from crumbling. Always. NHS overwhelmed? Govt voted out at next election.

The propaganda is designed to make you think it’s about protecting the elderly. It’s not.

You're wrong. Saving lives has always been part of the government's MO. And look where it's got us.

'What strategy should I teach my DC to cope without education? What strategy to teach young children to socialise properly when it is forbidden?'

You tell them there's a global crisis, happening everywhere not just us.Yes it's hard but the teachers are doing a great job with online learning and they'll be all kinds of things in place when they return to catch up. Those that have poor online attendance will probably have extra support. You tell them to use facetime to chat which lot of them actually do anyway if secondary school aged, you get them to meet one friend outdoors. Mine are up working now and one of them has said none of their pals are up and on live lessons. I'm sure their parents will wang on about their poor bubz education

Again, it isn't easy but it's necessary. I do wonder if the dc who are coping have parents that are coping and can understand why we need restrictions until the data shows we don't.

@firstimemamma

People have been mixing for ages now - in and out of each other's houses etc as they've had enough. Numbers haven't 'sky-rocketed' it's always something like 100 in 100,000 or something ridiculous like that. And even then many of those 100 won't even be that unwell. Just open stuff up and be done with it already! My fiancé is nhs frontline and agrees with me fully so nothing anyone says on here is going to make me think otherwise. It's just stupid now.

Really? We certainly haven't been doing this and nor has anyone that i know - not one.

The most that we have bent the rules is meeting a friend at the park for a run around and meeting my widowed mum for a walk (socially distanced and she does the same with my bro so she is double bubbling).

Again, it isn't easy but it's necessary. I do wonder if the dc who are coping have parents that are coping and can understand why we need restrictions until the data shows we don't.

I wonder if the dc who are coping are the ones who have
-food
-online learning
-no SEN or additional needs
-a loving family
-space in the home
-heating
-parents with no significant MH or addiction or other issues
-safety and no DV

Why should some kids suffer so greatly through no fault of their own. And what about young carers?? Some people are suffering so greatly because of these endless lockdowns

@Xenia

The nation is divided - at least 70% support the lockdowns. Since March 2020 I have been against the mandatory rules but I respect the fact people have very different views on these issues. This is not UK or Tory issue - most countries around the world have decided lockdowns and removal of our basic human rights are a price worth paying. Not surprising as states of all kinds always want more power and there is a science case this time to support them.

Give me freedom or give me death always comes to mind to me however. What is a life if it is in chains?

So it's better to end your life prematurely than live at the most 18 months/two years with restrictions? I just don't understand that attitude, unless you are actually clinically depressed. In which case you aren't thinking clearly.

The restrictions aren't great, but they are hardly prison for most people.

The loss of jobs and businesses has been terrible, but nothing could have prevented that whether we had lockdown or not. A virus going through the population would have a huge impact of people's ability to work, both now and in the future.

I'm a very pessimistic person and don't have 30 years left to enjoy, so these two years matter, but even I can see the light at the end of the tunnel if we can get through the next few months doing what needs doing.

I went through DV during the first lockdown and it was hell, he was furloughed and just used his time to torture me in the home.

At one point I was getting battered for stupid things like coffee cups being stained on the inside, leftovers bein thrown anyway. There’ll be millions of people going through that and worse and it just doesn’t sit right with me that the government have allowed everyone else to suffer, to save the lives of the elderly - especially when the elderly are the ones who were saying they’re not listening to the rules etc because they’re not spending their last days inside.

Agree. There are 66 million people on this stupid brexity island and in normal times 2000 die most days. With vaccines etc we need some more normality soon and let’s hope people stay a bit sensible washing hands, staying away from others if any ill symptoms etc. So many businesses have closed and poverty is dire.

Wanted to go back to something a pp said last night about 'how could you suddenly find new staff to increase NHS capacity at short notice'.

This interests me because I had read that around 30k retired or out of action NHS staff had gone on a register of volunteers last summer (not to vaccinate but to work in hospitals etc). Afaik very few were recruited - a few k? Obviously they wouldn't all have been suitable to work in ICO or with corona patients, but they perhaps could have replaced other staff, who could have been transferred. As far as I know there's been no detailed report as to whether better use could have been made of them. But obviously something to be looking into now, to prepare for next autumn? (Along with recruiting and starting to train new staff, obviously - that is a longer term strategy but we should be thinking long-term imv - not because corona will last for ever, but because something else may come along and the cost of not having spare capacity has turned out to be massive)

@hastingsandchips

All under 50 adults can all expect the first dose of the vaccine by September. This has been said many times now.

I'll believe that when I see it. There needs to be second doses for all the over 50s, and then when the virus mutates, there will be a new vaccine to be rolled out for next autumn.

In any case, are under 50s being asked to stay in until September or what? How about under 18s who aren't getting the vaccine but are having to miss school, exams cancelled, all the important experiences of their formative years cancelled?

The attitude towards young people in our country has always seemed to be that they don't really matter. It doesn't matter if they can't eat properly because their parents can't afford it, it doesn't matter if they are getting abused in the home, it doesn't matter if they miss years of their education, can't go anywhere, can't see friends or interact or have a life of their own.

The teens and young adults have lost so much. Even my older relations have said they’d rather the younger ones could have jabs so they could go to uni, go back to work etc. Balance has been lost.

@bellver888

It's the mixed government messages that are grinding me down. It's as if the info as to when we will open up again is like some shiny bright present to us all from them and they're still finding the wrapping paper, sellotape etc. before they can do a big tik tok style unboxing social media TV announcement to tell us. Meanwhile others in the government who know about this super duper present to us are giving us hints as to what it could be whilst others have their hands firmly over their mouths and are just excited about seeing our little happy faces when we unwrap.

At this point I'd prefer a kitten a and a bottle of perfume as at least I know what I'm getting.

OP, I agree one hundred percent with you. Others have said all I could say, and better.