We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

@Kintsugi16

Lives are ending but no-one alive has their life on hold. Have you not heard the phrase about dancing in the rain?

I was hoping this pandemic would teach us all to be less selfish and entitled, to slow us down and appreciate the simple and important things in life.

Oh for gods sake

[quote Slytherin]I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU[/quote]
Well what on earth do you want? Everything a free for all and no hospitals as there are too many patients? Or do you test positive and then go home to die and you only treat people with the 'old' diseases. No one can ever deal with this issue.

Also agree. Can’t believe a Tory MP spoke with so much feeling and humanity. We need more of this.

They need to actually close the boarders properly. We're constantly in restrictions meaning we can't work or see those we love, but there are always big gaping holes in it, like that you can still bring new variants in and spread it.

@walksen but my initial question about evidence, that you decided to answer, was to a poster who challenged a pp about getting infected by Covid over and over and implying that each time the infection would be bad. I simply hoped they'd be able to show where they got this from or to find out if it was them imagining a doomsday scenario.

I think that was an extreme thing to say, wondering if it was driven by some hidden information that they might reveal to us.

You then suggested that me asking about this was an obsession with evidence. I was hoping that the poster could expand to allay people's fears or otherwise.

@MagentaGiraffe

MagentaGiraffe *@Hammonds* i'm sorry but this is just nonsense. Smallpox is the only virus himankind has ever identified and eradicated from human populations. That was done with a vaccine. Rinduspest (Guinea worm) is close to eradication, as is polio. Also vaccines. No virus has ever been eradicated from the human population by "herd immunity" without mass vaccination.

You obviously know more that professor John Edward’s - advisory to the government

If you say so. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Please explain which part of my post you believe to be incorrect.

I suggest you go and look at the differences between small pox and covid.

I've had enough of all this too and I say that as someone who has lost a relative to Covid. They were very ill and then caught it in hospital and died. I know lots of people who have had it, mostly mildly.

I have followed the rules and done my bit. I work in a key role part-time which is more than most people have done. I know lots of people who really push the boundaries whereas we haven't. For example, relatives of ours going on holiday 4 times in the last year and having people come in and out of their houses, but say they are in the garden and meeting people all the time for walks which isn't illegal but it is not helping the situation. The same people have never done a supermarket shop for a year and take up vulnerable people's spots. Meanwhile, my DC's GCSE's are screwed and my youngest's schooling has suffered because people are just too selfish to do their bit to fully bring this under control.

We think this is a global thing but it isn't. People in Australia and many other countries have got it under control. They have some restrictions, but they are not under house arrest. Our country hasn't brought it under control because we always vote in stupid, unqualified toffs and there are a lot of selfish, ignorant people.

One of my relatives has Covid. They are in their 60's and they are alright. In fact, they thought they had a sore throat, walked past a testing station, and did it in on a whim only to test positive.

I am just not prepared to do this anymore. After Lockdown3 I don't think I can support this. I won't do anything that gets me a fine, but I am not staying in. I am going to meet friends and go out where I can. Since the Tory's shut our police station and our nearest is now 25 miles away, I doubt they will be enforcing the rules anyway.

"You then suggested that me asking about this was an obsession with evidence. I was hoping that the poster could expand to allay people's fears or otherwise."

That not how I saw it. I've admitted that it seems likely that subsequent infections are less severe and I hope that is borne out to be true.

For someone who lamented the lack of critical thinking think it was unreasonable to insist on evidence of repeated multiple infection when we think that sterilising immunity last at least 5 to 6 months and there hasn't been enough time to collect evidence about people getting infected more than twice. There's plenty here who deny that even happens.

I think it was unreasonable of you to insist on evidence you know can't possibly exist whilst we know that the government advisers based on their expertise have advised the public that booster jabs may be needed for a few years at least.

Did you just say you wanted the poster to allay people's fears by asking her to prove infections would get worse each time? That would do the opposite I would think.

Critical thinking indeed.

[quote Frazzled6]@LucasLeesEyebrows. If we completely lift all constraints and the virus rip through those under 50, don't socially distance, don't wear masks and go to what life was pre March. The viral load in those catching the virus will be high, fit and healthy people will end up dieing and the virus will mutate and become more difficult to control even to those who have been vaccinated. Therefore we need to vaccinate everyone quickly.[/quote]
I’m going to presume you are not a scientist, virologist or doctor? So again, where is your evidence for that, when we have been repeatedly told by Whitty, Valance and Van Tam that for the majority (read those under the age of 80 or not ECV) that this will be a mild illness. When did the narrative change to “ripping though the under 50s and leaving them in ICU or dead!”?

@Lelophants

They need to actually close the boarders properly. We're constantly in restrictions meaning we can't work or see those we love, but there are always big gaping holes in it, like that you can still bring new variants in and spread it.

Totally agree

Close our borders and open our schools

Theee are still 22k people a day arriving in UK !

It is our children and young people who are being sacrificed. DS has ADHD and ASD. He was doing well in normal secondary but cannot do online schooling. His social development is hugely set back and his educational one too. My nieces and nephews are all sent home from university and are paying thousands for a poorer quality course and willl graduate with no prospect of a job.

The social development of babies and toddlers will be hugely set back by not socialising with others in critical periods. We insist that puppies meet many people at an early stage for socialisation but it is fine to keep babies/toddlers away?? This is a social experiment on a massive scale which has potential huge implications for a whole generation.

It has already been almost a year, we have vaccines, that is enough.

Yet again. What government is going to let the virus rip through the community killing loads of people? It would be blood on their hands and political suicide.

*People keep saying "but the NHS will be overrun". I counter that with "but the economy will be screwed"

If there is no NHS there will be zero economy. You get that right? What it means when the NHS is overun? That means you get no medical assistance for anything - so any accidents and emergencies will not be dealt with. That means your appendix bursts, or you have a car accident, or you chop your finger off on machinery at work, no cancer treatment, over the counter medicines disappear, likely prescription meds become harder to get hold of....... all these people die who would otherwise have lived. When that starts happening, people will panic. When panic sets in, civil unrest will follow. And then the military end up on the streets - if we're lucky.

@ktp100

If we can't as a country go without pubs, Starbucks and holidays for a year or so to save thousands of elderly and vulnerable people then we are a country of cunts.

Which is becoming more and more evident by the day.

Totally missed the point. I would say you are exactly what you call the rest of us.

I will repost what @EarlGreywithLemon said
“EarlGreywithLemon The problem is this - the genome of the virus has proven less stable than they thought and hoped at the beginning. If you lift restrictions and allow it to run riot among the unvaccinated under 50s, it will mutate- and one of those mutations could mean it evades the vaccines altogether. So we’d be back to square one. The solution is to vaccinate everyone (which we hope to do with at least one dose by September) - the vaccines should cut down transmission. Coupled with loosening restrictions very prudently and a good test and trace, that would keep numbers very low and significantly improve the odds that we don’t get a nasty mutation”

This^^^

I’m so so sorry for your loss @untilithappenstoyou x holding your hand x

Op could have written your post myself and I do not think there bloody scientists should be allowed to tell the MSM what they "predict" there are no restrictions elsewhere that are back to normal and it won't happen here .. it didn't happen after previous ones either

They predicted we would not have a vaccine this bloke does my noodle in I prefer whitty or even better van tam

Why do so many people use the over-dramatic phrases 'locked in' or 'locked up in your house'? Nobody is locked up - you are free to go out for exercise and food shopping, etc. I think half the trouble is many people under 30 have never had any restrictions placed on them - they have done exactly as they want ever since they were children - and now cannot accept that this is something we ALL have to work together to overcome. I am sick of people moaning about going without their holidays or parties or meeting up with friends.

@walksen

I said "I was hoping that the poster could expand to allay people's fears or otherwise."

I think the "or otherwise" is the crucial part of my comment.

Lives are ending but no-one alive has their life on hold. Have you not heard the phrase about dancing in the rain?

Have you not heard that people are losing their livelihoods? What a ridiculous, insensitive post.

I agree with you OP. This could carry on for years, no one knows.

Also @walksen I asked for a link which might enlighten us as to whether they had read somewhere someone else that said what they had said rather their personal ponderings rather than "evidence ".
If you think that's unreasonable of me, so be it.

"Have you got a link for this "

@PracticingPerson

Oh please not this again.

We will be locked down until the indicators are better. We will lift the restrictions slowly, more slowly than last year because we fucked it up last year. Probably still not as slowly as we should. If things go our way the unlocking will be smooth. If things don't go our way we will have to lock down again.

What more do people really think can be said? It isn't a conspiracy, a plot, a story, a plan, a hoax. It is just shit and we (humans as a whole) are not in control of when this ends. We may be able to gain control at some point, but right now, we are not in control.

I agree.

"I was hoping that the poster could expand to allay people's fears or otherwise."

It's a poor use of grammar as well as critical thinking. That's the crucial part

It is a very right wing - indeed Trumpian - view and has popular appeal.

But we still have more people in hospital,than at the first peak, and the collapse of health care isn't about the loss of lives of those with covid, it's about and abrupt and chaotic end of health care for everyone - many lives will not be lived.

And at the time the disease rises to highest peak yet, so much else would collapse because of the sheer numbers falling ill.

That's not something I wouid want to live through. Because it's so much worse and wouid cause so much greater harm

what government would stop the education of its children, close schools and universities, make it illegal for young people to have sex or enter relationships? How many people will lose the chance to have children as they are staying indoors to give those in care homes an extra year?