We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

[Slytherin]

I actually find myself agreeing with a Tory for once...we’ve given up so much and the goalposts keep moving, yes it’s an unpredictable situation, but it’s also unsustainable long term. The idea that this summer will be possibly worse than last summer makes zero sense, when we have a vaccine roll out that far exceeds any other nation (except Israel) currently.
First it was let’s get the elderly and vulnerable vaccinated, then it was let’s get the over 50s vaccinated, now we’ve got members of SAGE suggesting restrictions have to continue until everyone, including children are vaccinated and beyond, because of the possibility of new variants. Professor John Edmunds said some would have to stay “forever” last night on Peston.

We must at some point live with an element of risk. I’m in no way suggesting we lift lockdown yet, but suggesting that things won’t have much improved by the summer, is, in my opinion encroaching into dangerous territory.

The government were over promising before, now they’re under promising. There’s got to be a middle ground, people’s mental health cannot sustain this level of pessimism and not having a single thing to look forward to. Everything gets dangled like a carrot, then taken away at the last minute. It’s beyond cruel.

Then it’s the mixed messages, Matt Hancock telling us he’s going on a summer holiday to Cornwall and he’s all booked up and Grant Shapps then telling nobody to even consider booking a holiday abroad or domestically this summer.

Yes, I support restrictions to save lives and support the NHS, but I don’t support the way the government are handling this once again. And I don’t support these restrictions indefinitely, especially when the majority of the at risk groups have been vaccinated.

www.channel4.com/news/we-cannot-cancel-life-to-preserve-every-life-tory-mp-sir-charles-walker-on-lockdown?fbclid=IwAR2RnQNKwJoQ4FSBxT9oTbwbFOCTWcIU9wD9WdYkTEA2sVlJ1posWZAfmsU

@Flaxmeadow

It’s still more stable than flu.

Stable at killing more people.
Covid 4 %
Flu 0.1%
It is not "the flu"

Oh give over

It’s more lethal than flu for sure but Covid doesn’t have a death rate of 4%

If that was true most of us would have had it by now, I’m not sure that’s true?

It is rough. And will be rough for a bit. The goalposts keep moving, in part, because we learn more about this virus, including the new variants, daily. EVERYONE is on edge, and who can blame them?

But this can be done. The first two years of my disability were emotionally draining until the day that I just decided, "This is what it is for as LONG as it is." This is my life.

I leave my house once a month for grocery shopping. ONCE A MONTH. I see my doctor every four months. I try to get out onto my porch at least daily for a few minutes. I have two friends who check in with me once a week, on different days. I stay busy on my computer. This has been my life for twelve years now.

What I am saying is, we can adjust. It is a matter of deciding that we will do what we must do. I am not saying that it is easy, I am saying that we can.

It’s more lethal than flu for sure but Covid doesn’t have a death rate of 4%

I'm afraid it does

If that was true most of us would have had it by now, I’m not sure that’s true?

I'm not understanding this

I agree. I think we need to take some personal responsibility here. Its actually quite easy not to get this thing and I have been around plenty of people who have had it.

• Socially distance.
• Wash your hands and dont touch your face
• Use a 24hr antiviral on your hands
• Wear a mask and dispose or replace it every time you touch it.

Its also quite easy to significantly reduce the risk of being hospitalised.

• Take daily max strength Vitamin D

Yes thats a lot of masks, washing and spending money on antiviral / Vit D which I appreciate is not financially possible for all. But it is doable for a lot of people.

It really does not have a death rate of 4%.

Quick calculation: UK has had about 4 million confirmed cases. Let’s say the real number is twice that (although it’s probably way more). 4% of that would be 320,000 dead. Do we have 320,000 dead? Nope.

@Pootle40

Is Long Covid the modern day ME?

There is a subgroup of longcovid with similarities to ME, but with the subgroup of long CoVid only a year old hard to know whether it will be chronic like ME is for majority. Also ME still here, people still getting it.

But as understanding of the pathophysiology of ME is not as far advanced as it could have been as ME has been minimised and neglected by medical institutions for decades with limited biomedical research commensurate to the burden of the disease, we need much larger research funding to build on preliminary findings.

US NIH have announced $1.5 billion for long CoVid research which may reap dividends for elucidating ME, but as still not known if ME and a subgroup of long CoVid is same or just similar, hard to know. Had ME been taken seriously much earlier perhaps more knowledge would be now be available for some forms of long CoVid.

@EarlGreywithLemon

The problem is this - the genome of the virus has proven less stable than they thought and hoped at the beginning. If you lift restrictions and allow it to run riot among the unvaccinated under 50s, it will mutate- and one of those mutations could mean it evades the vaccines altogether. So we’d be back to square one. The solution is to vaccinate everyone (which we hope to do with at least one dose by September) - the vaccines should cut down transmission. Coupled with loosening restrictions very prudently and a good test and trace, that would keep numbers very low and significantly improve the odds that we don’t get a nasty mutation.

Thank goodness for some common sense.

@itallworkedouthorribly

bumbly

Can you explain why it matters to you so much than this virus is more stable than flu? I just don't get it. This is not flu. Are you trying to pretend to yourself that ICUs are full of people with the flu? No one said it was flu.

I’m not sure what the person thought we were expecting.

Well, unlike you, they weren't comparing everything with the flu. They were scientists who, for a range of reasons that clearly don't interest you, thought we could reasonably hope to have more time for a vaccine to stay relevant.

It doesn’t really ‘matter so much to me’ but it seems to matter to a lot of people that coronavirus is mutating and that it’s ‘unstable’ and I’m just pointing out that we don’t worry to the same degree about flu being unstable and mutating even though it does it faster and more often than coronavirus.

The vaccine is still relevant.

• correction to my post above, US NIH have given $1.15 billion for long CoVid research, not $1.5 billion. www.meaction.net/2021/01/14/nih-official-confirms-1-15-billion-in-funding-is-for-long-covid-research/

LOL at 4%. It's less than 2% of lab-confirmed cases, with many more infections never tested and asymptomatic/low-symptom.

In India, they think 60% of people have already had it.

4%. Where ARE they hiding the millions upon millions of bodies, I wonder?!

@Flaxmeadow

It’s still more stable than flu.

Stable at killing more people.
Covid 4 %
Flu 0.1%
It is not "the flu"

Where are you getting 4% from? The CFR for coronavirus is less than 1% for most people. The IFR is lower still.

There’s only so long that you can convince younger people (and their parents) to keep on making massive sacrifices in order to protect the older population. Sacrificing their education, their mental health, their well-being etc. It’s not sustainable and it’s getting ridiculous.
It also pisses me off that my parents and all their friends who have already got the vaccine are busy making holiday plans / are able to look forward to some way out, when the future for anyone under 50 still looks bleak.

I haven't rtft.

It is awful it really is. I'm sick of being in the house, sick of not having anything to look forward to, worried for my children ( one should do her GCSE's this year) I go to work still (NHS boo hiss). I go from being at work where the majority of what I see is utterly traumatic (more than ever before) then at home bored, miserable and shattered.

I would LOVE the lockdown to be lifted soon. I really would. However, it is the wrong thing to do right now. It really is. Just because I support a continued lockdown it doesn't mean I enjoy it, Like some people on here so adamantly state. Far from it but it is what is needed. Those who flout the rules I wouldn't judge as I can see how hard it is but I guarantee they're the first to moan when the restrictions are prolonged despite them being a big contributing factor.

It depends how you calculate it, where and when. The WHO put it at between 3 - 4 %.
In Italy during the first wave it was calculated at twice that.

ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid

Even if they want to keep restrictions in place for much longer they won't be able to because most people won't be having any of it. They can't throw the whole population in prison. It gets to a point where even if you're over 80 you don't want to be spending the last bit of time you have cooped up and unable to see anyone, there is a natual end to people's compliance and it will be coming very soon en masse.

friends who have already got the vaccine are busy making holiday plans / are able to look forward to some way out, when the future for anyone under 50 still looks bleak.

Agree with this.

@Flaxmeadow FYI

ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid#case-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-by-age

gh.bmj.com/content/bmjgh/5/9/e003094.full.pdf

doesn’t really ‘matter so much to me’ but it seems to matter to a lot of people that coronavirus is mutating and that it’s ‘unstable’ and I’m just pointing out that we don’t worry to the same degree about flu being unstable and mutating even though it does it faster and more often than coronavirus.

You don't want to understand, I've seen others trying to explain it to you.

You don't want to understand, I've seen others trying to explain it to you.

Perfectly put.

We’re all fed up with it now and we all have things to do and people to see. We all know the government have made a mess of things and we should probably all be able to work out that they really don’t particularly want to save the lives of the elderly or CEV (the most expensive sorts of citizens to ‘maintain’). We all know that it’s taking a terrible toll on mental health, the economy and other health care too. The thing is though that ‘the goalposts’ keep moving because the virus does too and plans have to change to try and deal with it. Things are improving, vaccines and new treatments give us a chance to slowly get back to normal but it does have to be slowly this time because this is still a largely unknown quantity and if we totally lose control of it and let it infect lots of younger people the chances of it mutating into something more deadly (as Spanish Flu did between waves) is greatly increased. Suppose it develops into something which proves fatal to the very young for instance? The way things are going now it looks as though things could start to be gradually reopened around the end of spring so hopefully not long now. The situation is tough for everyone but the spiteful stuff about ‘my kids development is being sacrificed to save the old and the sick’ is unnecessary - this is all being done to prevent even worse long term economic consequences than lockdown will.

"its actually quite easy not to get this thing and I have been around plenty of people who have had it."

Tell that to nurses, doctors care workers nursery school staff etc who by the nature of their job can't socially distance.

I feel like MN is a weird place where people always seem to go the opposite way to people in my immediate circle.

Nobody I know in RL wants this lockdown to end until we have better figures, more vaccinated etc.
The only one I can think of who does, shares questionable YouTube links about how it is all fake.

So with everyone here saying there will be non-compliance en Masse... I couldn't disagree more. I believe after speaking to people and looking at how well the online petions opposing lockdown have done that it is all a lot of hot air and much like now we will have the odd few who still go to their parents but can't do much else. They're insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

@Chosennone

I am starting to sway. I'm confused. Is there something they're not telling us? Is this going to affect kids more than they're letting on?

At first I was willing to comply totally to keep older and vulnerable safe. When groups 1-5 and definitely up to group 9 are vaccinated, why can't we ease up up morenor less completely? The line is fine and the balancing act precarious. But I'm scared I'm missing something.

No, I don't think there's anything sinister that they're not telling you. They just finally realised that constantly overpromising and under-delivering makes them look like complete idiots. So now they're being super conservative so that everyone will think they're wonderful when they start lifting restrictions "early".

It's kind of a wonder that they didn't figure this out sooner.

We cannot cancel life, to preserve every life

What an over the top, stupid statement. Life is not being cancelled.