So, what are you going to do?

[LaMarschallin]

To the people who are saying they won't stand this any longer:

What exactly do you plan to do?

March on the streets?

Run out of your house and hug your family?

Not wear masks?

Because you can't go to the cinema, theatre, festivals, shops, libraries, cafes, pubs, send your children to school, see beauticians etc without the government's say so.

I'm just interested to know what the alternative is to trying to keep the infection rate down is.

Well thats what the law at this moment only leave home for essential reasons ...its no lie is it.
Its just everyone adapts essential reasons to suit them.
I'm sure most of them have been law abiding citizens before now, the law just doesn't suit them these days.

@gallbladderpain

metro.co.uk/2021/02/10/boy-12-was-found-hanged-by-his-little-sister-after-covid-lockdown-made-him-sad-14054728/

This is one of many.

@gallbladderpain

Well thats what the law at this moment only leave home for essential reasons ...its no lie is it. Its just everyone adapts essential reasons to suit them. I'm sure most of them have been law abiding citizens before now, the law just doesn't suit them these days.

I think you will find that people have the capacity to think. I dont think you have factored that into your ideals of 'it's the law'.

Look, I get you are angry at your situation but I think you are expecting the unreasonable from people. Even if you do insist on expecting it, it doesnt mean people will live up to your expectations. People are going to resume life because humans are inherently selfish. They wont put their lives on hold for others forever. Sorry. That's life.

@JesusInTheCabbageVan those are very good points! I'll rope a friend in and properly break lockdown.

[quote XenoBitch]@gallbladderpain

metro.co.uk/2021/02/10/boy-12-was-found-hanged-by-his-little-sister-after-covid-lockdown-made-him-sad-14054728/

This is one of many.[/quote]
Oh seriously if this is the reason you are breaking rules for your children ..maybe start to look at the also rare stories of covid killing healthy kids and if you are getting your kids out mixing to prevent this story then you would be as well keeping them in to prevent them from dying of covid as well.
People haven't took interest in the mental health of kids for years, no one cared what was happening to vulnerable abused kids in long school holidays before now either or where they were getting their next meal from and now it affects them personally its all 'won't you think about the kids mental health, schools need to be opened so vulnerable kids can be safe and get a hot lunch each day'

@gallbladderpain I am very well aware of vulnerable children owing to working with them for my whole career so I am very clear on what's been going on for decades prior to this.

However your post is scare mongering and irresponsible. Tragically children die of many illnesses, including ones like chicken pox or flu. We don't need to completely seclude our children from covid and the damage to them if we did would be far greater than covid.

I also say this as a bereaved mother.

You need some perspective and you need to stop scaremongering

Look, I get you are angry at your situation but I think you are expecting the unreasonable from people. Even if you do insist on expecting it, it doesnt mean people will live up to your expectations. People are going to resume life because humans are inherently selfish. They wont put their lives on hold for others forever. Sorry. That's life.

It's also entirely unrealistic to expect them to or waste an emotion like anger on it all, IME. It is simply not going to happen.

It is what it is. Crack on. Seriously, that's what it boils down to. It took me years to get my head round it.

@TwirpingBird people do have the capacity to think, but if we all thought about every law In place and decided to think for ourselves and do what we want including breaking those laws then society would be very civilised wouldn't it

[quote OpheliasCrayon]@gallbladderpain I am very well aware of vulnerable children owing to working with them for my whole career so I am very clear on what's been going on for decades prior to this.

However your post is scare mongering and irresponsible. Tragically children die of many illnesses, including ones like chicken pox or flu. We don't need to completely seclude our children from covid and the damage to them if we did would be far greater than covid.

I also say this as a bereaved mother.

You need some perspective and you need to stop scaremongering[/quote]
Scaremongering is sharing posts of one child who hangs themselves and pointing it to the fact he did it because lockdown made him sad. Im not denying thats what he did it but its rare not every child is going to be going out hanging themselves the same way they will also very rarely die of covid. That is on the same level as the 'scaremongering' news stories I've mentioned

I've already hugged my mum. What else are you supposed to do when a consultant asks you to explain to an old lady with dementia that her husband has had a heart attack that has left his heart extremely weak and now he has pneumonia and no, you can't visit him?

@gallbladderpain

"yes they do miss their friends perfectly natural reaction and they may struggle with homeschooling and can't wait to get back to school but none of them have died of boredom yet !"

Given that school children are at a negligible risk of dying from Covid yet are the ones sacrificing their education and future prospects in order to protect the lives of the older generation then maybe it might be a good idea if this same older generation started showing a little more respect or even a simple thank you to school children and young people rather than labelling them as "snowflakes "

[quote 1dayatatime]@gallbladderpain

"yes they do miss their friends perfectly natural reaction and they may struggle with homeschooling and can't wait to get back to school but none of them have died of boredom yet !"

Given that school children are at a negligible risk of dying from Covid yet are the ones sacrificing their education and future prospects in order to protect the lives of the older generation then maybe it might be a good idea if this same older generation started showing a little more respect or even a simple thank you to school children and young people rather than labelling them as "snowflakes "[/quote]
I am not of the older generation or anywhere even close to it. I was born in the 90's
I'm sure a few old people saying 'thank you' will make it better for them though.
My elderly neighbours have said thank you to us for doing the right thing as has my elderly grandmother so some are grateful for the sacrifices being made.

[quote OpheliasCrayon]@gallbladderpain I am very well aware of vulnerable children owing to working with them for my whole career so I am very clear on what's been going on for decades prior to this.

However your post is scare mongering and irresponsible. Tragically children die of many illnesses, including ones like chicken pox or flu. We don't need to completely seclude our children from covid and the damage to them if we did would be far greater than covid.

I also say this as a bereaved mother.

You need some perspective and you need to stop scaremongering[/quote]
I'm a bereaved mother, too. My parent and in-law parent died from Covid. My surviving children are starting to frighten me with this latest lockdown. They have both lost way too much weight.

You are spot on.

Me and my kids have been seeing family and friends all the way through. Feel sorry for all the kids that have been locked away for a year what a great life for them.

@rawalpindithelabrador

Look, I get you are angry at your situation but I think you are expecting the unreasonable from people. Even if you do insist on expecting it, it doesnt mean people will live up to your expectations. People are going to resume life because humans are inherently selfish. They wont put their lives on hold for others forever. Sorry. That's life.

It's also entirely unrealistic to expect them to or waste an emotion like anger on it all, IME. It is simply not going to happen.

It is what it is. Crack on. Seriously, that's what it boils down to. It took me years to get my head round it.

I am starting to realise the same. Back in june of last year I would be livid at anyone who broke rules to see family or met for a playdate because I was following the rules and wouldnt let myself have those things.

Now, I make decisions for me. I do follow the rules but I accept that I choose to and they dont and I have no anger against them. Sometimes I wish I had their attitude. I think it would be easier. Now, I do what my family needs, and what I need, and i try not to ask for justification from anyone. Nobody can judge anyone IMO. Nobody knows what others are feeling. Anger is a waste of time.

It's a complete waste of time, Twirling, it changes nothing and the obly person it hurts is the bearer. Everyone else just cracks on. That's a harsh truth, but a truth nonetheless.

@gallbladderpain I suggest maybe not stooping to the same level of scaremongering then, because you are being just as bad

@rawalpindithelabrador I'm deeply sorry for your losses.

@gallbladderpain

There are many laws in the world which are immoral and which society would be much more civilised without. Many countries criminalise homosexuality, for example, or place restrictions on women's movement and property rights etc.

I place laws which prevent people seeing their family and require us to damage our own children's health, happiness and development in this sort of category. I don't believe that any government should prevent a person seeing their parents or children for almost a year no matter what the circumstances.

These are laws which were not initially properly scrutinised by parliament and which fundamentally restrict human rights. Other similar European countries have found outright bans on family mixing in private homes to be unconstitutional. Very few countries have implemented the sort of long term bans on household mixing which have been used in the UK.

My first priority is my baby and that includes making sure that he forms relationships with his family. My sister would be his guardian if myself and my husband died but has barely met him.

And it is completely inappropriate to call a child a snowflake for struggling with being denied the right to receive an education, socialise with other children, see their wider family, play sport etc. No child (or adult) should have to be "resilient" to living without having these basic needs met for a long period. In any other circumstances what we are doing to children would be considered abusive and you don't expect resilience to abuse.

Big fan of OP’s unconvincing pivot to pretending to be good-humoured after completely misjudging the ‘nail thing’ comment and being shown up as a total arse. Better luck next time.

[quote Chessie678]@gallbladderpain

There are many laws in the world which are immoral and which society would be much more civilised without. Many countries criminalise homosexuality, for example, or place restrictions on women's movement and property rights etc.

I place laws which prevent people seeing their family and require us to damage our own children's health, happiness and development in this sort of category. I don't believe that any government should prevent a person seeing their parents or children for almost a year no matter what the circumstances.

These are laws which were not initially properly scrutinised by parliament and which fundamentally restrict human rights. Other similar European countries have found outright bans on family mixing in private homes to be unconstitutional. Very few countries have implemented the sort of long term bans on household mixing which have been used in the UK.

My first priority is my baby and that includes making sure that he forms relationships with his family. My sister would be his guardian if myself and my husband died but has barely met him.

And it is completely inappropriate to call a child a snowflake for struggling with being denied the right to receive an education, socialise with other children, see their wider family, play sport etc. No child (or adult) should have to be "resilient" to living without having these basic needs met for a long period. In any other circumstances what we are doing to children would be considered abusive and you don't expect resilience to abuse.[/quote]
Except it hasn't been almost a year they have stopped people seeing their parents and children has it ?
July-November there was plenty of opportunity.
This latest lockdown where you aren't allowed to meet has been since 26th December still under 2 months
Children haven't been denied the right to an education, schools are still providing education although yes its not been very even across the board and some are certainly not getting a good standard but they were also in schools full time with little mitagations from September - December and very few other countries around the world were in a position to do that without limitations, social distancing and mask wearing in young children etc

Except it hasn't been almost a year they have stopped people seeing their parents and children has it ?
July-November there was plenty of opportunity.

Oh right so as well as only your kid mattering, it’s also only the area you live in that matters.

@gallbladderpain
It depends very much what tiers etc. you have been in. It hasn't been legal for me to see my sister or in laws since October. My baby has met my in laws twice in very narrow windows where that was allowed in their area - that isn't enough for him to recognise them. Some people have not been allowed to mix households inside at all for almost a year and outdoor mixing isn't helpful if you live a long way from family.

And lessons on zoom are not an appropriate education for a 5 year old and in the first lockdown most children weren't even getting that.

My point about the legal regime in other countries though is that they have not for the most part banned all household mixing indoors long term in the way the UK has (in some cases because the government doesn't legally have the power to do so) and they don't seem to have done any worse with covid overall as a result.

This latest lockdown where you aren't allowed to meet has been since 26th December still under 2 months

@DoctorHildegardLanstrom

This latest lockdown where you aren't allowed to meet has been since 26th December still under 2 months

Pressed the wrong button

I wasn't allowed to mix households before the 26th December,

Since last summer we've had the in laws in our house and we've always hugged. Haven't seen anyone since Christmas but likely to start meeting up with 1 or 2 people indoors in the next few weeks. In my county in Scotland the rates are currently 82 per 100,000 and dropping all the time.......and I'm in the central belt. Other parts of Scotland are even lower. The mental health scales are going to tip soon for many (if they've not already) so like it or not lockdown will end whether we get permission or not.