Ever changing goalposts....the cynic in me...

[Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow]

....wonders if there is more going on.

First we had to “flatten the curve”. Then we needed to wait for a vaccine. Now we need to wait for a vaccine against a new strain.

But new strains will always appear. There will be a new one come September by the time the next vaccine is out.

I can’t see a way out of this using current strategy but no one is discussing any other strategy.

At what point does it end? When our children have no future? When most service business are gone? When we are all vaccinated every three months?

At what point do we aim to reduce serious illness in the vulnerable and then get on with our lives? We have vaccines that do that.

This isn’t me saying that long covid isn’t a thing or that I’m not worried. But I gravely fear for other things at this point.

I’m no conspiracy theorist usually but it does feel like this is a new world order of control through the back door. There is no dissent. There can be no opposition nor protests

I guess they have to be the right sort of scientists, and not the scientists who disagree with the government?

OK, I will rephrase.

I think people trust the scientists who are advising governments across the world more than this thread would suggest.

@pinkearedcow

That petition has been up a while and doesn't have many signatures. I think people trust the scientists more than this thread would suggest.

That's reassuring. I couldn't be bothered to click on it, but that's good to know.

@MNnicknameforCVthreads

But we haven’t really been told we “need to wait for a vaccine against a new strain”, have we?

The plan is still to get children back to school from March 8th, and other relaxations will follow.

I’m sticking with that for now, until we’re told different

This

@Randominternetbitch

Well, considering protesting is also now illegal, it’s going to take nothing short of mass civil unrest or civil war to get our freedoms back. We’ve sleep walked into a draconian authoritarian regime under the guise of keeping us safe, and it seems most people are only toohappy to keep spreading their cheeks and begging for more.

Yep

The absence of a legitimate platform for moderate, informed debate is what concerns me. Most people recognise the need to prevent sick people dying in gutters by reducing pressure on the NHS- but there is nowhere for anyone to question where the balance lies between shutting society down to achieve that and the other economic and social impacts of doing so. Last year these impacts were part of the discussion, but they now seem to have been superseded b ya one-dimensional "science" driven approach (even though scientists don't agree with eachother). It is clearly regrettable that people have died with covid (not "of" covid as you can be hit by a car and will count under the death figures if you tested positive within the prior 28 days) but even if that applies to 200k people, are the measures disproportionate when set against the impact on the other 66.3m or so people in the UK?

knittingaddict

DuchessofHastings1
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/564347

Petition to have restrictions lifted come May once the elderly and vulnerable are vaccinated.
No thanks. I'd rather scientists worked out when it was the right time to ease restrictions, not Joe Public. Which scientists and governments will do, by the way. We aren't in this forever, whatever some would like to think.“

Indeed. The entire adult population needs to be vaccinated.

@HazeyJaneII

On threads like this I have found the best way not to feel the need to repeatedly slam my head in a wardrobe door in frustration with the "I'm not a conspiracy theorist but..." is to find *@RedToothBrush* posts and read those to calm down.

So much this! And also @Cornettoninja 's posts.

The absence of a legitimate platform for moderate, informed debate is what concerns me

Well we are debating it here and someone has posted the lonk to the Toby Young site. What other sort of platform do you envisage DrofhculD

I think part of the problem that lockdown sceptics have is that there are a set number of arguments that they all put forward and they generally don't seem to be able to develop their case any further than that.

As HazeyJaneII says it get SO tedious for those who are on the other of the debate to endlessly put forward the counter argument to the lockdown sceptic script over and over again and so people often just stop engaging in the debate . Your post is a typical example, with the tested positive for covid, died in a car crash line. It's not a new or interesting argument, it's been trotted out a thousand times and debunked a thousand times on here.

"link" not "lonk"!

[quote arthurdaly]@pinkearedcow I know, I really should get on and do some work.
All I really want is to book bloody Peppa Pig world for DS 3rd birthday in March and I hate that pig 😂
[/quote]
Sorry, but this made me laugh. I think it probably sums up perfectly how most of us feel. I don’t have kids, but at the moment I’d probably want to come with you to Peppa Pig World!

I hope that your son gets to go this year, maybe in the summer. Tell him that, this year, he gets to be like a king/Queen in that he gets two birthdays!

@pinkearedcow, it’s interesting really. Most of us aren’t experts on virology or the economy so we’re just regurgitating whatever information has appealed to us the most. That’s fine generally speaking but there’s a distinct lack of flexibility to accept new information as being just as credible/viable. It’s known that once someone has an opinion it’s nigh on impossible to change it and critical thinking is a skill that really needs a widespread push to develop in schools.

This was an issue before covid but this pandemic has highlighted and entrenched it.

That's very true Cornettoninja and perhaps I'm as entrenched in my views as some of the lockdown sceptics are and am also guilty of trotting out a "script" in some ways. The whole issue mirrors the Brexit arguments where people were (mostly) so firmly on one side or the other and not at likely to change their views.

On the other hand, if someone could come up with a viable, realistic alternative for lockdown I would be bloody well all for it as would most of those who support the measures, I expect.

I’m excited got a 1st in mathematics, I teach further maths at a level. I sort of understand the maths behind what you would need to make some kind of predictive model for the next few months. I understand it enough to know that to make an effective model would have loads of inputs, need lots of up to date data, and a good team of people. Back at the beginning of last March, when it was just an exponential curve, I felt more than capable of making predictions, but there is a hell of a lot more going on now. Top teams of big brains are crunching data to find the best way and earliest time possible to release us from lockdown. Whether I like the decisions they make or not, I’m pretty sure our government is getting the best analyses possible fed to them. I’d much rather they responded to those analyses as the data is refined than act based on public opinion and political expediency.

That's very true Cornettoninja and perhaps I'm as entrenched in my views as some of the lockdown sceptics are and am also guilty of trotting out a "script" in some ways. The whole issue mirrors the Brexit arguments where people were (mostly) so firmly on one side or the other and not at likely to change their views

Brexit and the trump/Clinton campaigns are great examples of why things like Cambridge Analytica and companies who use algorithms in the same way are really dangerous. It doesn’t take much to push someone leaning one way over completely and shut out other arguments. This is a side of the internet desperately in need of regulation but we’re way behind. That and bots/paid agitators on social media platforms. Imho we need a 25 year old in charge of technical legislation!

On the other hand, if someone could come up with a viable, realistic alternative for lockdown I would be bloody well all for it as would most of those who support the measures, I expect

I know bloody well would be! My biggest criteria is that it needs to be sustainable and the risk of another lockdown minimal.