Ever changing goalposts....the cynic in me...

[Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow]

....wonders if there is more going on.

First we had to “flatten the curve”. Then we needed to wait for a vaccine. Now we need to wait for a vaccine against a new strain.

But new strains will always appear. There will be a new one come September by the time the next vaccine is out.

I can’t see a way out of this using current strategy but no one is discussing any other strategy.

At what point does it end? When our children have no future? When most service business are gone? When we are all vaccinated every three months?

At what point do we aim to reduce serious illness in the vulnerable and then get on with our lives? We have vaccines that do that.

This isn’t me saying that long covid isn’t a thing or that I’m not worried. But I gravely fear for other things at this point.

I’m no conspiracy theorist usually but it does feel like this is a new world order of control through the back door. There is no dissent. There can be no opposition nor protests

I’m no conspiracy theorist usually but it does feel like this is a new world order of control through the back door That's a conspiracy theory

I totally understand your concern. Also some of the responses show the ridiculous reaction you can get for voicing perfectly valid worries that it's hard to imagine an end to this if the goal is to eradicate COVID completely. It would be really nice if the government could set out some scenarios - since it's gone on way longer than most people thought it would, and many young, fit people are starting to feel really negative physical and mental health and economic impacts from the lockdown. It's perfectly reasonable to wonder how long this strategy will last if nothing has changed in a year, two years, three years... what if the vaccines don't work, what if it keeps mutating every year, etc. At some point there has to be some balance or the cure will cause as much of a problem as the disease. It would be so nice if Mumsnet could be a place where parents could discuss their concerns in a supportive environment without people saying silly things like "calm the fuck down".
There are many people who feel the same way you do OP, but we are increasingly scared to voice our opinions for fear of being called granny haters.

I completely agree with your post OP except for the new world order bit..

And Katie517 writes amazing posts! Thank you for writing so eloquently, I couldn't have written it better myself. Agree with all your points.

@Croleeen

I totally understand your concern. Also some of the responses show the ridiculous reaction you can get for voicing perfectly valid worries that it's hard to imagine an end to this if the goal is to eradicate COVID completely. It would be really nice if the government could set out some scenarios - since it's gone on way longer than most people thought it would, and many young, fit people are starting to feel really negative physical and mental health and economic impacts from the lockdown. It's perfectly reasonable to wonder how long this strategy will last if nothing has changed in a year, two years, three years... what if the vaccines don't work, what if it keeps mutating every year, etc. At some point there has to be some balance or the cure will cause as much of a problem as the disease. It would be so nice if Mumsnet could be a place where parents could discuss their concerns in a supportive environment without people saying silly things like "calm the fuck down". There are many people who feel the same way you do OP, but we are increasingly scared to voice our opinions for fear of being called granny haters.

I'd firmly state the opposite. Those sharing the same concerns as the OP are increasingly finding their voice and everyday similar voices and concerns are being risen. For every single person who had opposing views to the OP or every single jerk who has nothing better to say than "Get a hobby' or 'Calm the fuck down', there has been 3 voices who agreed with the OP. I genuinely think people are starting to question this bloody never-ending ruthless lockdown.

Weird how people are quick to suspect their government yet think it’s perfectly safe to join a rabble online when we know that there are parties that have an interest in controlling the tone of social media.

Yes and some of them wound people up to make sure we dismembered ourselves from the EU, and then used similar algorithms to get Boris the GE. You can't have it both ways.

What do you mean both ways??

I mean that, for the reason I gave, it is documented that the same man responsible for both manipulating the referendum result and pulling the Tory party strings behind the scenes used social media to great effect. He had an interest in controlling it, and until late last year, by all accounts, he pretty much was the government. (Probably still is - the silence is deafening.)

Anyone joining a "rabble online" backed by "parties with an interest in controlling the tone of social media" isn't that dissimilar to someone backing the government, in other words.

This 10 year prison sentence threat will be almost completely empty in practice, but you're all looking in the wrong direction. It's distractions like this that are now covering up the long term changes to parliamentary control that the Tories are (and have been) wielding that is what we should all be afraid of, as they will long outlive the covid tragedy. If you think it's bad now, look up Henry VIII powers.

I tell you what from the dramatics on mumsnet this year, I really don't know how any of you would get through a civil war so you'd be as well to be hoping that we don't end up in that scenario because another while of covid restrictions would be a walk in the park in comparison

Well said @gallbladderpain, so many of these hysterical posters really don't have a clue. I also think it's a good thing I take notice of what is happening in other countries, if I relied on MN for all my news I would be convinced that the UK is the only place with restrictions in place, the only place where people are suffering.

Think you're over estimating Johnson if you think that there was ever a goal.

He's a mini Trump who has had success politically and in his personal life through telling people what they want to hear.

The fact that he spent time sorting out his divorce rather than chairing Cobra meetings suggests that he thought things would fizzle out like SARS.

If there's a conspiracy I think it's about what happens after Covid. The spotlight will shift to the public enquiry into the government's actions like care homes policy and Brexit. The public will want to know answers to difficult questions like how long it will take the NHS to get back to speed and how many people died because they didn't want to bother the NHS? Senior ministers who weren't really in the spotlight like Gove will suddenly be centre stage and have to explain his reasons for not sorting out and/or lying about how Brexit would pan out. People will want to know how Sunak is going to try to pay for Covid and if Williamson would consider any education reform. The blame will be on Westminster and not the virus and scientists who have taken a lot of the flak when they (rightly) have no decision making powers.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Yes - 10 years imprisonments has definitely been a huge trigger for me. I simply cannot believe this is happening in the UK. Ten years in prison for travel.

Whoever said MN is a protest is a joke. This is a discussion forum. If I travel to my local government seat I will be charged! I can’t meet anyone to even do that.

We are of course being softened for longer lasting restrictions even if younger children go back to school. Concerts and large weddings - when? In a decade?

No I don’t want the health service to lose control but once older people are vaccinated against serious illness - why do we carry on with restrictions?

I’m not calm - I won’t calm the fuck down. I believe this is MASSIVE and it’s not being discussed properly. The only opposition is from backbench Tory MPs.

Am I the crazy one?

Well done, you’ve uncovered the massive government conspiracy to ban weddings and concerts.

Ironically, stupid posts like this and the stupid responses they elicit and 'solidarity' they stoke are part of the reason this situation will go on and on.

Don't forget it's taxpayer money that they are wasting.

Sunak's FIL is a billionaire and his wife is also extremely wealthy. He'll be fine
Johnson will be wealthy when he leaves office so wants to stay as long as possible so he has more material for his inevitable memoir and dinner party speeches. He'll be fine.

And so on...

The goalposts were laid out by scientists who said the crisis would last 12 to 18 months back in Feb / March last year.

They said the chances were we would see a second wave over the winter which would be worse than the first.

They said that we might have a vaccination ready by the end of 2020 if we were lucky.

They said that we may be new variants which might be a problem for vaccinations.

None of this changed. The goalposts didn't change. This was always the reality.

Plenty of posters here recognised where the goalposts were.

The trouble is that through the pandemic the public have listen to populist politicians over and above the scientists, because they didn't like what the scientists were saying.

They started calling the scientists names like doomongers and dr death etc. But this didn't change the goalposts because covid continued to behave largely in the way anticipated very early on in the pandemic.

The issue here is where the gap between scientists and politicians arose and how certain sections of the public don't like being told hometruths and that there isn't another viable alternative because they want fools hope or to stick their fingers in their ears going lalala in a huge amount of denial of reality.

Conspiracy theories spring up when people dont like the reality presented to them. So they prefer to live in fantasies of their own creation - sometimes blaming others for it.

The thing is though the information about where we were likely to be in February 2021 was out there. None of this is a shock or a surprise to people paying attention.

Watch one news programme a day. Read the front pages of the newspapers daily. Follow some scientists on twitter.

But dont wail about the goal posts moving what its purely a reflection of how you are fully informed and aren't paying full attention to the crisis and want to be spoon-fed every last drop of information by Hancock, Johnson and Co.

They are lying bastards. What else did you really expect to happen? Covid to turn into fairies if you chanted 'i believe' three times?

@PracticingPerson

I’m no conspiracy theorist usually but it does feel like this is a new world order of control through the back door That's a conspiracy theory

No it’s really not. I have gone along with every single rule. Only seen my parents outside in the summer when it was allowed. My dh hasn’t seen his parents who are 10 minutes walk away other than at the end of their drive since the first lockdown. Dd celebrated her 18th in July, luckily rule of 6 outside applied at that time which she adhered to but subsequently went to Uni and is currently paying £9,000 + pa for the privilege of sitting in her bedroom watching zoom lectures with a once weekly distanced walk with one friend. We were told this was to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed. We were told emergency Nightingale hospitals were being built (were they ever used ?) and that temporary morgues would be needed. Did any of this come to fruition ? I am absolutely no Covid denier but whilst I absolutely accepted the need for the initial lockdown I am becoming increasingly sceptical as to why every time there is a good news story (eg successful vaccines ) there is an immediate negative backlash with more restrictions, discovery of mutations (which were never mentioned until vaccines were invented despite undoubtedly being in existence as all viruses mutate)and messaging that we no longer needed to prevent the NHS being overwhelmed but that we were potentially looking at lockdowns on an annual basis to ‘protect ‘ the NHS. I honestly have no time for conspiracy theories but one (probably absolutely nonsensical ) theory does occur. Which country is currently standing to do best out of this crisis, which country is about to become the World’s top economy and which country was able to most successfully enforce lockdown -? China - not the world’s progressive liberal democracies . Probably absolute rubbish but there are certainly economic reasons why western economies may be considering that intimidating their populations into a submissive , passive state may ultimately prove successful

For those who are questioning why the OP is a conspiracy theorist - I think it probably has something to do with her mentioning New World Order

Here's a hobby for you. Have a chamomile tea, stop watching Drs on YouTube and take a large step back from the David Icke forum.

They haven't moved the goalposts. They've said ALL ALONG there would be a second wave
They said there would be variations.
It is a fluid situation.

It is shit it really is but posts like this do not help.

Anyway what would I know. I'm just a government shill working for the NHS who aren't all that.

@user1471448866 My trust is using a temp morgue. Not sure about others
Nightingale in Exeter was utilised.

We have patients on ITU that isn't actual ITU but a theatre ffs.
Or theatre recovery

We have dental nurses and radiographers on ITU helping.
Nightingale never had the staff to run it. That was a poor choice I agree. It was a knee jerk reaction and the inability to see that it takes a long time to train medics.
That and the NHS have been undercut for years.

Could not agree with you more OP- the changing goal posts is beyond comprehension at this point. If 12m people are vaccinated and they are the ones most likely to overwhelm the nhs why aren’t we opening back up. It feels like now we are aiming for zero covid and that won’t happen. It’s enough now!
In the news the youngest terrorist in the U.K. was found guilty, one of the reasons the judge sited was that he was cut off from society, his family and friends ....don’t want to think about the long term damage we have caused children. No one dares to truly challenge decisions though, not when the slogan is don’t kill your granny ...(just fuck over your children)!

@baroqueandblue, thanks for replying. I don’t disagree with you and was basically making the same point.

The manipulation used politically lately isn’t confined to brexit or elections. It’s doesn’t really matter whether your supporting or opposing something online, there are interested parties on both sides who have an interest in using your voice for their own aims whether people realise it or not.

Propaganda had always happened at some level but the use of social media to manipulate goes deeper than most seem to be aware of.

Well to be clear, I don’t seriously then there is a “new world order” - I quote the conspiracy theorists in some element of solidarity at what the mind does when it thrown stuff for long enough.

But do I think there is more going on? Perhaps. For the person they told me I needed to be drip fed news and the person who told me to stop watching You Tube. These aren’t things I do. I have loathed lockdown and what it has done to us. We have literally lost everything.

I have done everything asked of me on the assumption we would gradually start lifting when we had done what we needed to do - ensure the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed. Yes we aren’t quite there yet but I don’t see any plans to get us back. We are now dealing with never ending variants which of course was always going to happen.

So yes I am outraged. Angry. I feel utterly powerless. Those who seem quite happy to remain lockdown seem to me those who work from home. I genuinely don’t think they realise the absolute maelstrom unfolding for certain sectors and also the young. I don’t know one older person who wants this either.

So what is going on? Follow the money?

And again why aren’t we sorting out people’s metabolic health which is another of the reasons people in the UK aren’t coping so well with the virus.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Well to be clear, I don’t seriously then there is a “new world order” - I quote the conspiracy theorists in some element of solidarity at what the mind does when it thrown stuff for long enough.

But do I think there is more going on? Perhaps. For the person they told me I needed to be drip fed news and the person who told me to stop watching You Tube. These aren’t things I do. I have loathed lockdown and what it has done to us. We have literally lost everything.

I have done everything asked of me on the assumption we would gradually start lifting when we had done what we needed to do - ensure the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed. Yes we aren’t quite there yet but I don’t see any plans to get us back. We are now dealing with never ending variants which of course was always going to happen.

So yes I am outraged. Angry. I feel utterly powerless. Those who seem quite happy to remain lockdown seem to me those who work from home. I genuinely don’t think they realise the absolute maelstrom unfolding for certain sectors and also the young. I don’t know one older person who wants this either.

So what is going on? Follow the money?

And again why aren’t we sorting out people’s metabolic health which is another of the reasons people in the UK aren’t coping so well with the virus.

So not a conspiracy theorist, just quoting them.

People in the UK have not "literally lost everything", literally, they actually haven't.

I'm not so much of a back door / conspiracy theorist as you, but I am actually quite fed up with it all!

Isn't the investigation into the Government's handling of the whole covid crisis already begun?

echt no some people have done very well thank you. But we have. My husband has lost his business. We are devastated.

I’m glad many are ok but what is going on for thousands isn’t being talked about

echt maybe your looking in the wrong places? I’m a business owner - I have three staff and financially were in a bad way. I’ve had to close down which has put my staff in financial difficulties. I know many other businesses owners who are in the same position. Hair dressers/restaurant and pub owners. I know a bar owner who has two bars who is having to go bankrupt and sell his family home. The Government grants are not helping and a lot of them still havnt been received.

But like I said people in safe ivory towers can look out and think all me need to do is just stay in and ‘follow the rules’ - it’s hard to accept that when your life is crumbling around and you.

The class divide after this is going to be vast.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Yes - 10 years imprisonments has definitely been a huge trigger for me. I simply cannot believe this is happening in the UK. Ten years in prison for travel.

Whoever said MN is a protest is a joke. This is a discussion forum. If I travel to my local government seat I will be charged! I can’t meet anyone to even do that.

We are of course being softened for longer lasting restrictions even if younger children go back to school. Concerts and large weddings - when? In a decade?

No I don’t want the health service to lose control but once older people are vaccinated against serious illness - why do we carry on with restrictions?

I’m not calm - I won’t calm the fuck down. I believe this is MASSIVE and it’s not being discussed properly. The only opposition is from backbench Tory MPs.

Am I the crazy one?

I’m not calm - I won’t calm the fuck down. I believe this is MASSIVE and it’s not being discussed properly. The only opposition is from backbench Tory MPs

Am I the crazy one?

Well you’re certainly irrational. What is it that you think is going on other than a virus with a natural R0 of >5 now (Kent strain) and from which 10-15% who contract it progress to severe disease and 5% critical? Do you understand the maths?

Yes we aren’t quite there yet but I don’t see any plans to get us back

Of course there are plans, the roadmap is due to be published 22 Feb.

I honestly wonder about MN these days. I am starting to form conspiracy theories about the conspiracy theorists on here (bots? Parler?).

The plan isn't to eradicate covid, but to get it under control. The new variant has thrown a spanner in the works, but once this vaccination programme has been rolled out to the specified groups, even with the new variants rolling around levels will likely be more managable, and things can slowly return to a semblance of normality. I do see why it's easy to get caught up in theories, as the carrot has moved so much, when really honesty at the start around the fact it wouldn't be smooth sailing, they knew flattening the curve in 2 weeks would not be enough. I think as well as the measures for physical health being patchy at best, the consideration onto the phsychology and what info to give and when was also wrong.