WHO report: covid likely not from Wuhan

[PicsInRed]

Covid not from Wuhan, not there before December 2019 and may even have been imported into Wuhan/China in frozen food.

Definitely, 100% not from a lab but may have mutated bit by bit and crossed different animals and borders whilst doing so in order to reach the current covid we know and love.

So there ya go.

www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55996728

I reckon it originated in America. They’re known for poor animal welfare and global zoonotic diseases including swine flu, the plague, bird flu and the “Spanish” flu.

But they also lied about the severity initially and whistle blowers to the outside “disappeared”. They did delay in reporting to WHO, although WHO did the equivalent of a toddler pat on the back for their eventual reporting.

One year on, were they ever going to get the truth? If they didn’t at the time, they sure as hell weren’t going to now.

It’s not a China vs uk thread (as frankly boris and his fucking hand shaking, it’s just a cold bollocks does not shower us with glory either).

And didn't they say that patient zero had covid in November and WHO says that there were no cases before December

That's an example of emerging science in action. Once people have realised that a handful of unusual cases of ARDS-type pnemonia are connected, and then have looked for, found and sequenced novel pathogen, they can then start going back through records of any other patients who presented similarly in recent past, and re-test any retained samples.

Thus is standard practice - if you look at MERS, it was originally believed to have emerged in Saudi Arabia in September 2012, but the restropective investigation of cases established it in Jordan in April 2012.

This is not because there is a cover up. It's simply because when there are only very small numbers of slightly odd cases, the possibility of a significant link by novel pathogen isn't the first thing that anyone would think of. But by the time you have several cases and are worried that you perhaps have a new outbreak of SARS, but it's not-quite-SARS, then klaxons might start up. It's entirely possible that, like MERS, there could be preceding cases before a big enough, odd enough cluster occurred

@Puzzledandpissedoff

They did a joint briefing with Chinese health authorities because it was a joint investigation. Those were the terms under which WHO was permitted access

I know, LangCleg, and that's what I meant about there being no way they'd have allowed anyone to investigate who they couldn't keep a watch over

On the subject of how we'd assure independence, I realise we probably can't as long as organisations are vulnerable to pressure via funding - and since funding's obviously essential it's a bit of a circular problem

There was a lab technician in Birmingham, she caught small pox at the university. it was in the 70s and if I remember correctly it was the last death recorded of small pox

It was indeed Birmingham, ancientgran, and there's an interesting article about it here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-45101091
As you'll see, in a roundabout way that outbreak actually killed two people, in that Professor Henry Bedson - the guy who headed the facility - killed himself over it

Thanks, it was sad wasn't it, the world on the point of announcing smallpox had been eradicated and that happened. Reading that article they never worked out how she caught it and I don't suppose Birmingham University was trying to cover it up. Amazing it didn't spread.

I think that shows how things can happen, maybe animals maybe a lab accident, we will probably never really know just like we will never know how that lab worker caught smallpox.

@MellowMelly

I wonder if it did all start with the guys that fell ill in the cave of bats in China. The workers that were clearing up the Bat droppings all got sick. I think it was a new variant that caused enough concern for the Wuhan Laboratory to start looking into it and possibly to start panicking upon the realisation that it was a more highly infectious/unknown strain.

By this point it is too late as it’s all ready been spread by the workers and possibly beyond containment.

This is a reasonable scenario.

@lljkk

How many of you (who are sure Wuhan lab was the source) also think that Porton Down chemical defence & research laboratories must have poisoned their own (unwanted foreign?) locals in an 'accidental release' that nearly killed the Scripals?

I mean, that's a pretty equal size helluva coincidence too.

Coz all we need is coincidence to have enough proof, right?

How are you sure it was not a lab ?

Strange that the guy from WHO said straight away in 2019/2020 it was boloney to think that Covid had originated from a Wuhan lab, suddenly said last week that it was a possibility. I said to my DH then that he was only saying that to try and make us trust him to be independent prior to announcing his investigations prove it didn't come from the Wuhan lab. What utter bollocks.

Why is China now insisting that no further investigation of the lab is made? They have had over a year to let the WHO in. Plenty of time to get rid of evidence.

@CassandraCalled

Thank you Lweji for your patient little campaign against these damaging conspiracy theories. People, please remember the scientific communities’ heartfelt appeals to think before you click. The man made virus/lab escape story makes excellent pop culture narrative, but it encourages us to be lazy and not bother to learn about how terribly, frighteningly likely the spontaneous emergence of a zoonotic species is when we combine intensive farming, overcrowding, poor cheap animal husbandry, and inadequate hygiene. The WHO has been warning for years about the inevitability of a pandemic - and as for not listening or believing in them, they work with emergent information, which will change as rapidly as the situation does, and they cannot work at all if a government bans them. If we start to take weird comfort from the idea that a baddy had to have made this virus, we miss genuine opportunities to take boring, sensible steps to prevent the next virus from taking advantage of ideal conditions accelerating the normal, natural leap between species.

Cassandra I see your point here.

But I don't think it's one or the other.

The whole reason there are labs working on this stuff is precisely because of the threat of a zoonotic virus arising, that mutates and jumps species quickly.

I don't even "believe" in the lab leak theory. I'm just thinking it's not totally absurd. Because I'm not a microbiologist I cant assess the science itself. I can only assess the trustworthiness of of the institutions- and they don't have it automatically anymore. And I see the mocking of people who are saying Hang on a minute. The mockers are laughing at the scientifically illiterate. The mockees are thinking, what authority do you have to tell me who to trust?

This dynamic keeps playing out. It is a big problem.
But off topic, sorry

@MarthaWashingtonsFeralTomcat

Ok then WHO.

@scaevola

I think people want to believe it's the lab because they want to blame someone, and want a theory of how it could have happened.

Because the idea that Mother Nature can just do this, in ways that we cannot necessarily bottom out fully, is just too unsettling

As id the possibility that there is an unknown animal reservoir of the same or similar out there somewhere, which could spill over again at some random time in the future.

SARS 2003, MERS 2012, SARS-2 2019

This is what corona viruses do.

And all seem to come from China including the one in 1957-1958 one ... I have no problem with the Chinese people but the ccp are nasty what they do to their own citizens and the Muslim camps ... I believe this is man made and it got out not on purpose and nothing will change my mind .. I am quite worried about the 4th virus to come from China !

I don't know it wasn't done in the lab. I probably don't care.
I don't mind WHO saying they can't see evidence it was a lab-cooked virus. They should only comment on evidence not ideas without evidence.
I know diseases can jump between animals & people. Obvious explanations make sense.

If the Wuhan lab did cook the virus, then what virus cooking are other Cat4 labs doing if China wanted to communistise the world, why not make a virus that makes everyone placid unless they get a special supplement to wake their brains up. How about a virus that makes people not want to have babies everyone in the world can have the virus except China could secretly vaccinate its population to want babies; and take over the world that way.

If you're gonna invent a conspiracy theory, have some decent imagination about it.

Excuse to be angry at China seems like the main reason people want to think Wuhan labs cooked up covid. Take anger out of the picture then there's little point to most conspiracy theories.

This is CCP propaganda.

The fact that the BBC are publishing it says everything you need know about their reportgage.

Maybe tomorrow we can have an article telling us how the Uighurs are actually enjoying their re-education and the Uighur women are happy to be sterilised as it's good for their health.

I don’t know/believe if it was a lab leak or genuine zoonotic mutation but don’t think it was intentional. However have zero trust in the credibility of the WHO for all the reasons discussed and I do think China handled it v badly in the first 1-2 months which could have avoided a larger outbreak.

What are you on about lljkk

Theres a massive difference between "it may have been an accidental lab leak for reasons x, y and z" and a conspiracy theory motivated by anti Chinese racism.
You shouldn't conflate the two

I see the BBC are interviewing Dr Peter Daszak, so it's a total stitch up.

Here's some background on Daszak who worked closely with the Wuhan lab.
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/01/28/covid-research-fake-investigation.aspx

Next thing you know Ursula VDL will be saying it originated in the U.K.

@doublehalo

This is CCP propaganda.

The fact that the BBC are publishing it says everything you need know about their reportgage.

Maybe tomorrow we can have an article telling us how the Uighurs are actually enjoying their re-education and the Uighur women are happy to be sterilised as it's good for their health.

Perhaps the UN will visit on the invitation of the CCP, be driven accompanied to agreed locations at set times, interview who they're told they can and report all is just swell and dandy in concentration camp land and actually there's no evidence anymore that these "Uighur" people even existed! And if they did, they must have been genocided by the neighbours when China wasn't looking.

Gang rape torture, what gang rape torture? 😊

Then they can all do a lovely joint presser at the end.

I trust the WHO about as much as I trust the Chinese Government, or any other Government.

Another article about Daszak..
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/09/17/gain-of-function-research.aspx

Oh, I don't think the anger is special about Chinese.
Not racism.
It could be anger against Bill Gates or Big Pharma.
Except ironically Big Pharma are our saviours now, you know, Merck, Pfizer, Biotech...

Anyway, The main thing is anger. Choose a target to hurl anger at.
That's the point of a conspiracy theory, methinks.
Some kind of socially sanctioned anger.

Blessed : Well we hear daily/ hourly about UK , SA and other variants,so job done!

There is an absolutely overwhelming mountain of real data about the Wuhan Lab and the work they were doing there with bat coronavirus. Gain of function experiments which had been banned in the US by Obama and got restarted in Wuhan.

Any other narrative is bullshit.

I’m not sure what’s wrong about it though.

@Cam77 FFS. I suggest you go educate yourself on China’s human rights record.

it arrived in chin on frozen goods?

Will this be what is in future history books?

Missed an a off there!