I met one of those "I'm not putting that in my body"

[Toorapid]

people this week. I didn't think they really existed.

It was at a (virtual) networking thing. Professional people who are in a category where some LAs are vaccinating us and some aren't. Most people in the "room" had already had the vaccination, except this one very vocal woman.

An educated woman, 40ish, in a position of responsibility, working in a sector supporting vulnerable people (hence the access to vaccines). I've met her before and she always seemed very switched on, socially responsible and very capable in her role.

As I said, I thought these people were a bit of an internet myth, but if they did exist, I didn't expect them to be people like this.

Have you met any?

I've had the vaccine, didn't think twice about it, if I were pre children in my 20s I may be a little warier. Saying that, I took all sorts in my 'Hacienda days' and that was pre children

Have folk seen those 'nasal tanners'? you literally snort them like a 'sinex' and it turns your skin orange ... I wouldn't go near one of those, so if anti vaxxers feel like that about the Covid jab I can empathise!!

Thanks Ethel.

God the tiresome line "happy to inject this/drink that/smoke whatever but won't have the vaccine". So bloody predictable and actually only proves an inability to think critically. How dare anyone assume this of everyone that has a different opinion.

Crack on with the vaccine if you want it but anyone who chooses not to have it is exercising the right to choose what to do with their body and thankfully we still live in a country where we have that choice.

There will be enough people in U.K. willing to have the vaccination which in turn will release the pressure on the NHS. The priority has been to the NHS firstly which was probably why our government signed up so early for the vaccine as a more cost effective way of getting out of the mess we’re in

So for those that don’t want the vaccination it’s not going to be an issue with those in authority as by June you’ll have a very large proportion of over 50s vaccinated. If 10% aren’t and get covid then a large proportion will be fine and recover and possibly just a small % end up on ventilation.

For some they’ve already had the virus and will be protected anyway ( but no one knows for how long)

If a few people refuse vaccination it’s not generally going to effect the 80% that do take up the offer

Those that can’t have the vaccination will be in the main, protected by the 80% that do get vaccinated

I support people's right to make choices for themselves based on their own research and opinions, I do, but that research has to be on accurate information. Research conducted on conspiracy sites or Facebook posts doesn't count. It's what leads to anti-vaccination in a large scale.

There needs to be an acknowledgement of the fact that, whilst this is a 'new' vaccine in terms of being targeted at Covid-19, the underlying bulk of it has been there for years, from the SARS/MERS days. And, as pointed out, it hasn't been rushed, it's just has money and people throw at it, the two things that are the hold ups of any vaccine. If the vaccine has taken 2 or 3 years to produce - because it has had the usual hold ups of vaccine production, not because of any other reason, so no longer term observation of recipients or anything like that - would people feel happier about it? Because if the answer is yes, it isn't logical to not receive it due to the time taken to develop this one.

I think there also needs to be an awareness that, if a significant number of people who can medically have the vaccine choose not to, there is a huge impact on those who cannot have the vaccine for medical reasons. Same as any herd immunity situation - the more people who take the 'it's okay if I don't have it, because other people have' line, the less protection available for those who can't have it. And then you have the anti-vaccine ideology again.

Again, people are entitled to make their own choices, but that choice is not made in isolation, there will be knock on effects for others, and I think that needs to be kept in mind.

I just like to be fully informed of any decision I make, this includes long term data to review. I have had anaphylactic reactions to medications before, so that increases my doubt. My family will be being vaccinated, CEV shielding sister and full time carer mother, so I will get some "herd" immunity in the house hopefully, but I appreciate people may not agree with me. I don't think it will make me infertile, or I'll die, but I have anxiety and I am uncomfortable committing to something without full long term data, plus I am not convinced they will be as effective as people think. I reckon by next year they will be more effective and almost like a seasonal flu jab, so I'm just going to patiently wait, watch and keep social distancing. I am thrilled my Grandad got it though because at 92, the risks of covid are so much more substantial than any potential long term effect from a vaccine. I am also encouraging anyone that asks my opinion to have it if their risks are significant

I think the health worker argument is the real clincher for me. There are lots of reasons people end up in hospital that are their own fault - alcohol, obesity, drugs. However, in general, there aren't readily available, fully-tested vaccines against those complex problems. Equally, alcoholics or the obese do not generally pose a deadly threat to the doctors and nurses who are treating them. As such, I think there is a moral quandry in treating Covid-19 patients who have previously refused the vaccine.

I also think there is a real problem in expecting health care workers to have a vaccine that you personally don't believe is safe in order that they can safely treat you, who chose not to have the vaccine. For the record, I do believe it's safe - no government in their right mind would roll out a vaccine to 11.5m people if they weren't sure of that.

I'm afraid I just can't get with this 'it's my body and my right to do as I like'. It can't work like that with this disease. If you choose not to have the vaccine, you put others in danger, simple as that and I don't really understand how people can live with that.

If I “conspiracy site” shows videos of Doctors and scientists with equal qualifications to the BBC, how is that not legitimate information?

One may say that a person with no financial gains to be made from their views may be more inclined to speak the truth.

And did you realise that you live in a World where recognised Doctors, nurses and scientists that speak out (because they have a different view or information that worries them) now get banned and censored almost immediately from google, Facebook, Twitter and all other mainstream platforms.

You’re OK with that?

Those posters saying they don't know the long term effects of the vaccine, true, but we don't know the long term effects of covid either. We know the short and medium term effects of both covid and the vaccines, nearly 2.5 million people have died so far of covid, no idea how many have been permanently and seriously harmed by it. Has anyone died so far from the vaccine? Why do you think the long term effects of the vaccine will be worse than the long term effects of covid?

And if you’re too stupid to even realise that most “conspiracy theories “ have legs then you must literally never read!

One of my friends told me about how she new a conspiracy who believed the bill gates microchip thing. I asked her “do you know anything about bill gates, what he does etc? His vision for the future?”
No, she said.
I asked if she was aware that bill gates in on video and has done numerous videos about the future of humans that will have some form of digital recognition system on or in them.
“No, she said”

So bill gates and microchips is not a conspiracy theory!! Whether bill gates would sneak them into a vaccine without consent is a conspiracy theory.

But most people are too stupid to look for the legs of a story.

@Dodododahdahdah

If I “conspiracy site” shows videos of Doctors and scientists with equal qualifications to the BBC, how is that not legitimate information?

One may say that a person with no financial gains to be made from their views may be more inclined to speak the truth.

Out of interest how do you evaluate whether they are reliable sources and whether they have anything to gain? Whether they are of sound mind? What conflicting interests they have?

Same as the great reset . She knew nothing about that either, just said it was a conspiracy theory.

It’s not! It’s a recognised group of people called the world economic forum. Basically a group of very rich people, with no political power, stating there vision for our future.
They have put videos out. It’s all there! The conspiracy theory is not The great reset, the conspiracy theories is how sinister these people are willing to be to create THEIR perfect world.

Most people who talk about conspiracy theories in a negative way are too dumb to find out basic facts.

Out of interest how do you evaluate whether they are reliable sources and whether they have anything to gain? Whether they are of sound mind? What conflicting interests they have?

😂😂 same way you do with yours!

Just go have a look! Look them up! Then check they are real, check their medical paper, check there work. That you will find on google!

People still seem to be muddled on the difference between
research done on a vaccination to the point of getting a vaccine approved, and
research done afterwards to see the effects on a worldwide population of all ages, ethnicites, medical situations, unborn, etc etc.
The first can be done in 10 months.
The second is done in 10 years.

Narcolepsy has, according to the WHO, been linked to the flu vaccine, in some countries.

Are some people here not bothered about potential long term side effects? Is ‘duty’ more important to you?

@Kendodd

Those posters saying they don't know the long term effects of the vaccine, true, but we don't know the long term effects of covid either. We know the short and medium term effects of both covid and the vaccines, nearly 2.5 million people have died so far of covid, no idea how many have been permanently and seriously harmed by it. Has anyone died so far from the vaccine? Why do you think the long term effects of the vaccine will be worse than the long term effects of covid?

We also have no idea of the number of people who recovered just fine after getting Covid.

@Dodododahdahdah

Out of interest how do you evaluate whether they are reliable sources and whether they have anything to gain? Whether they are of sound mind? What conflicting interests they have?

😂😂 same way you do with yours!

Just go have a look! Look them up! Then check they are real, check their medical paper, check there work. That you will find on google!

Look them up in what way? Look at what exactly? And where? What is your process?

Tbh I will be delaying as well. I'm currently BFing. There have been reports that it wasn't safe, others that it was.

I think if people don't want them leave them to it but I believe if they refuse the vaccine they shouldn't be top priority for a bed in an overstretches hospital!

I am generally pro vaccine but I must admit that it does worry me that a vaccine for the closest known virus to Covid, namely SARS was scrapped after it was shown that it caused that it caused immunopathologic-type lung disease in the test animals. And to date there is no vaccine to SARS

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3335060/#!po=5.42169

This is despite SARS being much more deadly than Covid, having a mortality rate of 10%. So in theory a vaccine for SARS should be a very high priority.

Equally there has been no vaccine developed for MERS which is the next closest relative of Covid despite being first identified in n 2012. And also being much more deadly than Covid.

This all sits rather uneasily with me.

@Hope4theBestPlan4theWorst

I think if people don't want them leave them to it but I believe if they refuse the vaccine they shouldn't be top priority for a bed in an overstretches hospital!

Thankfully, that is not how the NHS works. Honestly, I am glad the people who come out with this line are not in charge.

I can understand younger people thinking twice TBF. I was offered the vaccine through work and snapped it up as I worry that being in my late 50s I may be one of those who become unwell with Covid . But if I was a lot younger and didn't find catching Covid to be a worry then yes I might have decided to wait rather than rushing in to have it .

I think if people don't want them leave them to it but I believe if they refuse the vaccine they shouldn't be top priority for a bed in an overstretches hospital!

that should never happen, for threatening someone not to possibly receive treatment if they don't do as you require is abhorrent