Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

it is well known that you can still spread the virus and still catch it after having had the vaccine
No it isn’t, @VenusTiger. I wrote about this up thread. What’s known is that there isn’t evidence you can’t spread it yet. You know why? Because vaccine rollout has only just started. The evidence could, of course, prove it either way when we get it, but there’s far more reason to think you won’t be able to transmit as that’s the case with other vaccines. And yes, of course you can ‘catch’ it with a. Vaccine - what a vaccine does is encourage/enable your immune system to kill it off before it makes you ill...

Last I read, about 70% of BAME are not having the virus.
They will be refused jobs? Travel? Going in cafes??

[quote VenusTiger]@Peaceiseveryrhing I take it you saw my post on page 3 - I'm losing hope with people - I despair!
One of the vaccines was tested on animals, and when the animal came into contact with the virus, the animal died.
Whatever studies people want to read and whatever choices people want to make, should not be up to anyone else - we know fact that people have died 'with Covid' after having had the vaccine - I can't believe how many people don't know this stuff, it's unbelievable really.
I'll say it again, vaccinate the vulnerable and elderly as transmission is still possible with the vaccine.[/quote]
@VenusTiger your real name has to be Karen right? “ThE VaXXiNe WaS TeSTEd oN an AnIMal ANd iT dIED” died of what Karen?! Just because it came into contact with the virus, that does not unequivocally prove whatever you are trying to say. By the way, I don’t consider The National Enquirer, or your hairdresser to be a reliable source.

The vaccine takes a minimum of three weeks to become effective. We started mass vaccination at the end of December. Patients can be vaccinated whilst simultaneously carrying covid or walk out the door and catch it down at “The Asda”, then unfortunately die. It bears no reflection on the vaccine as it hasn’t had a chance to work. Then take into account the 10% ish (depending on the vaccine) who won’t develop the expected antibodies and can therefore still be susceptible. Ya know how we protect those guys? We all get vaccinated! That way there is a robust healthcare service able to do their best to save those people rather than being absolutely drowning and making decisions on who lives and who dies.

Yes it’s a virus and wondering where I said it wasn’t ?and look at how many years it took to be effective as I just said it’s not overnight nor is it just a few years it took 16 years to have a full effect. As most vaccines take similar times to have full effect.
So far better to vaccinate the old and vulnerable and then get on with life.
And of course so far there is no real proof if it works and for how long it lasts if it does work so there’s now 9 million guinea pigs

I don't understand why would they want people to be vaccinated to use their shops/planes etc?

I thought they still think people can transmit it? It just modulates severity of disease? Therefore there's no evidence that individuals having the vaccine bears any effect on anyone else.

Also isn't there the potential that as people aren't as poorly they're more likely to spread it unknowingly?

I'm confused? Am I missing something? But I have had a vaccine so potentially it's knocked a few brain cells out.

@Peaceiseveryrhing

Are you not concerned about the long terms effects of catching COVID ?

Have you heard of the link between HPV and cervical cancer ? EBV and Lymphoma ? Hep B and liver cancer?

That aside those that can have the vaccine should and those that can but don’t should face consequences. It’s unsafe for someone who can’t have the vaccine to mix in society if a percentage of that society isn’t vaccines that’s what heard immunity is all about.

Herd immunity *

@AlternativePerspective 😂

Healthcare workers have to prove their immune status to various infectious diseases...

and yet, there is this, plenty of English HCPs don't get annual flu jabs, 25%-40% don't in recent years. Sometimes the logistics are so bad as to make it impossible, sometimes the HCPs choose to not get the jab.

@lightand no drug or vaccine is ever completely safe.
But after something has been used in thousands and thousands of ordinary people (including those that would not be allowed to take part in trials for various reasons) sometimes rare side effects are discovered that could not be expected to be found in a clinical trial of 10,000 people.

Think about it - if a side effect occurs in 1 in 10,000 people, or only in people with a rare pre existing condition, it's unlikely to come up in a trial of 10,000 people.

In most cases however these rare side effects don't actually mean the product is taken off the market - just that the side effect is added to the packaging, or they stop using the product for certain groups of patient.

In the case of a vaccine it's actually unlikely to have any long term effects as it is designed to cause a quick reaction in your immune system. There have been cases where a rare short term effect came to light after licensing. Rotavirus vaccine in children was linked to intussception after it went into general use. I can't remember if that was a genuine link but it the vaccine was withdrawn for a time whilst it was investigated. There are other products that are very widely used and actually have some pretty serious long term side effects, and people still use them. The contraceptive pill is an obvious example. There's a reasonable risk of thromboembolism if it's taken by overweight women, smokers or those over 30. Yet many of these women are still prescribed it.

Ibuprofen is another one that is widely taken and is far riskier than any vaccine.

Since many have had it including myself the ones that have had it will be far better immune than any vaccine

@Sushirolls

I think it's outrageous that people will be coerced into a medical procedure they do not want. It is never ok to force someone, which is what it is. The government are just letting companies do it so they can say "it's not our fault" otherwise they'd legislate against it. Yes people can choose not to fly or go to concerts etc, but they need to work and be able to shop to eat. They are not being given a choice when they're being forced, by being coerced.

I am likely losing my job soon as I will not have it and although it's illegal, they will find a way round it to sack me for not having it.

People would be up in arms if it was to do with race or sexuality, etc.

What about those who cannot have it?!

So sorry to hear about your job - that's awful!

Beautifully written btw

@AlternativePerspective

I’m not anti vax by the way, my granny has just had hers and I’m over the moon and by kids have all had their jabs. But threatening a job loss if they don’t vaccinate - no. that depends. I know someone who is currently shielding and although she can work from home is refusing to. She has said she refuses to have the vaccine but then expects her employer to support her for as long as she feels she needs to sit on her arse at home.

I do think an employer should have the right to dismiss someone on those grounds.

Bloody hell she is bonkers - if she is vulnerable she needs it. However it’s her right not to. But it’s your employers right to get rid of her if she isn’t doing her work.

People would be up in arms if it was to do with race or sexuality, etc.

Again, you cannot choose your race or sexuality, and neither race nor sexuality makes you a danger to others. Being anti-vaccine is not w protected characteristic.

I can't believe how many people don't know this stuff, it's unbelievable really.

I can’t believe people just swallow this stuff. It is indeed unbelievable. Please share the evidence to support your claims.

Then there are arguments over how often you need to be vaccinated, if you're vaccinated, can you be contagious, can you mix n match different vaccines etc etc. Nobody knows the answer as it's being made up as we go along.

It's not being made up as we go along, it's based on research that is still ongoing.

As for the question of: Can you still be contagious after being vaccinated? How would they conclusively answer this with research that can be done quickly? They can't vaccinate someone, then expose them to covid, see if they catch it, and then if the trial participant is covid positive, then put them in close contact with someone else to see if they will also catch it. It's not ethical to do this with a disease that doesn't have a proven cure yet.

@themarchare

OP have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? You're not as clever as you think you are.

At what point have I suggested I am clever?

I have however been accused of being thick, sworn at and ridiculed.

I'm allowed to have an opinion

Agree with op, very reasonable opinion. I am surprised every day how people so happy to give all the freedom and rights at the first sign of danger that is disproportionately inflated by media. We are really quite fragile as society. I don’t know any friends who take this seriously.

[quote Baycob]@Peaceiseveryrhing

Are you not concerned about the long terms effects of catching COVID ?

Have you heard of the link between HPV and cervical cancer ? EBV and Lymphoma ? Hep B and liver cancer?

That aside those that can have the vaccine should and those that can but don’t should face consequences. It’s unsafe for someone who can’t have the vaccine to mix in society if a percentage of that society isn’t vaccines that’s what heard immunity is all about.[/quote]
Consequences like what? Fine? Prison? Really?

@HibernatingTill2030

*I am likely losing my job soon as I will not have it and although it's illegal, they will find a way round it to sack me for not having it.

People would be up in arms if it was to do with race or sexuality, etc.

What about those who cannot have it?!*

I assume those who can not have it for medical reasons will be covered by the equality act.
I don't agree with people who are CURRENTLY employed having this made a condition of employment. I think certain companies- eg health and social care- should perhaps consider it for future employees.

No, all employees have to have it. No exceptions. No jab, no job.

I am "lucky" that I can afford to take the hit & stand my ground. A couple of my colleagues have felt they have no other option.

@SavannahMiasMum you obviously don’t like vaccinations.....tell me this, one of your daughters. Mia say for arguments sake. 25-30 years from now is pregnant. She contracts Rubella in pregnancy (which is much more prevalent due to selfish people like you not vaccinating your children). Her baby is born with a host of birth defects, most likely they’ll be deaf, but there’s lots of other harrowing potential problems. Mia finds out it’s been caused by Rubella, which you never vaccinated her against as you chose not to. How do you explain and justify to Mia why her baby is disabled? And that baby when they get older, providing they’ve escaped the brain damage that is common in Rubella babies. Mmmm, what would you say? Just interested?

@handsforfeet

I don't understand why would they want people to be vaccinated to use their shops/planes etc?

I thought they still think people can transmit it? It just modulates severity of disease? Therefore there's no evidence that individuals having the vaccine bears any effect on anyone else.

Also isn't there the potential that as people aren't as poorly they're more likely to spread it unknowingly?

I'm confused? Am I missing something? But I have had a vaccine so potentially it's knocked a few brain cells out.

Even if there is still transmission, it would almost be like a cold. Many more asymptotic and mild cases. If everyone is not vaccinated then the ones who are not vaccinated are still at risk of developing more severe covid.

So we can still go about our lives, as there is less chance of becoming severely ill or making others severely ill so long as they are vaccinated.

We're told that these new vaccines are safe. We were told that all the elderly should be vaccinated. Weeks later, countries like Germany decide it's a waste of time for anyone over 60.

Just wanted to point out that this is a complete lie! Are you thick or just stirring?

People are literally dying to have the vaccine. But it’s okay if you dont want it as there are around 7.8 billion (minus the children, and the ones who can’t have it), all waiting in the queue and can’t wait to get it.

OP your post wasn’t an opinion, your were up in arms at being ‘forced’ when no one is forcing anyone. And you were clutching your pearls that this could even be considered - yet it is nothing new.

Your post wasn’t an ‘opinion’.

I hope they do bring in vaccine passports! People are blowing vaccine risks out of proportion, we'll soon se ehkw serious they are about not having it if they aren't allowed to do fun activities but others are!