Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

Vaccines will not stop the virus. The history of all vaccines proves this and even worse for viruses compared to other diseases.

Erm apart from smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, polio, diphtheria, several types of meningitis, yellow fever, Japanese encephalitis, countless animal diseases as well?

@SnackSizeRaisin So unless you refuse to have any new drug or vaccine until it's licensed for about 10 years, the same thing applies

Because it takes that long to guarantee it's complete safety I assume?

Sad

'Sad' is not a sentence. Unless your name is Donald?

You mean you want to curtail the right of discussion? if you mean do I think that antivaxxers shouldn’t be given a platform, then yes.

I agreed with Jonathan Van Tam on this one a few weeks ago when he said that antivaxxers should just not be given any airtime, because antivax is bloody dangerous. If you were to convince someone not to have the vaccine and they died then that would make you responsible for their death, IMO.

Ridiculous idea. I will refuse vaccine at this condition.

@AStudyinPink

The point about a free choice when it comes to healthcare is that the choice shouldn’t come with coercive, discriminatory consequences.

A totally free choice is one which doesn't affect other people (which is a very rare instance). But, if we compare this with smoking, for example, businesses are well within their rights to ban smoking on their premises as it's a risk to their staff and other customers. Non-vaccinated people are potentially a similar risk to the health of others and therefore the same type of restrictions could apply.

I agree, it does put an element of pressure on those who don't want a vaccine but I'm not sure that the rights of the anti-vaxxers trump the rights of those who want to stay safe.

As to the poster who likened it to race/sexuality discrimination - it's not the same at all! Those are personal characteristics which are not an active choice. Unless you're restricted access to those who are medically unable to be vaccinated then I'd argue it's not disrciminatory.

Probably, at some point, there will be sufficient herd immunity via those who want to be vaccinated that it will no longer be necessary to have these kinds of rules for most everyday activities anyway (as we don't for measles vaccines, for example).

Bet you wouldn't apply that argument to something like saysexuality, race, gender?

None of the above are contagious illnesses.

@SavannahMiasMum

Vaccines have worked quite well for eradicating smallpox, and controlling measles, rubella, mumps, diphtheria and whooping cough in th UK.

@SavannahMiasMum

Vaccines will not stop the virus. The history of all vaccines proves this and even worse for viruses compared to other diseases.

Anyone thinking it will all be good by this time next year will have a big shock

I disagree. I think so many more people have had it than they realise as the infection caused little to no symptoms and we could reach herd immunity along side the speedy vaccination and we will be getting to a much better place by autumn.

I really don’t think planning for yearly mass vaccinations ( except those that are vulnerable) or pass ports are necessary.

[quote VenusTiger]@Peaceiseveryrhing I take it you saw my post on page 3 - I'm losing hope with people - I despair!
One of the vaccines was tested on animals, and when the animal came into contact with the virus, the animal died.
Whatever studies people want to read and whatever choices people want to make, should not be up to anyone else - we know fact that people have died 'with Covid' after having had the vaccine - I can't believe how many people don't know this stuff, it's unbelievable really.
I'll say it again, vaccinate the vulnerable and elderly as transmission is still possible with the vaccine.[/quote]
Wow so In your eyes you say people shouldn’t have the vaccine as an animal got it and caught the virus it died? But then you say vaccinate the elderly and vulnerable only , is that so we all get the virus and die. What an absolutely selfish and sick comment to make.

Pretty obvious that coercion was gonna happen.

The coercion plan will fall apart when it comes time for boosters, plus people from LMICs (where any jabs & especially boosters will be hard to get) will successfully campaign that their human rights have been damaged.

Meanwhile, there could be a black market in certificates that are 'good enough' for some conveyance providers (some airlines).

Predictable.

Actually smallpox has been eradicated worldwide by vaccine. Vaccines clearly and obviously do work, even on viruses.

@SavannahMiasMum another one here absolutely thick as shit.....there’s a strong theme here isn’t there.

I don’t think this is discriminatory or forcing anyone to be vaccinated. Someone mentioned it up thread, this sort of thing already happens for the health and safety of others. Healthcare workers have to prove their immune status to various infectious diseases before practising medicine in the UK. You won’t be forced to get vaccinated but you won’t be allowed on wards to practice until you can prove you’ve had your MMR or TB for example. Your choice.

There is plenty of argument that children should be refused a school place unless they’ve had MMR for instance, as is the case in Australia and the fact that so many don’t vaccinate their DC against MMR means that we have now lost our measles free status.

Other countries would be perfectly within their rights to refuse entry to non vaccinated people, which would mean the airlines would be best off refusing unvaccinated people from the outset in order to ensure that they weren’t then having to be responsible for flying them home when they’re refused entry.

And I agree, certain choices can be forced if they are for the good of others, smoking being a case in point as mentioned above. Also, people with e.g. epilepsy have to undergo certain tests before they can have a drivers licence, and if they have a fit then that drivers licence will be revoked for a period.

Equally people who have ICD defibrillators inserted, if your defib goes off then you lose your licence for 6 months. It’s for the good of others...

[quote VenusTiger]@Peaceiseveryrhing I take it you saw my post on page 3 - I'm losing hope with people - I despair!
One of the vaccines was tested on animals, and when the animal came into contact with the virus, the animal died.
Whatever studies people want to read and whatever choices people want to make, should not be up to anyone else - we know fact that people have died 'with Covid' after having had the vaccine - I can't believe how many people don't know this stuff, it's unbelievable really.
I'll say it again, vaccinate the vulnerable and elderly as transmission is still possible with the vaccine.[/quote]
I agree.

People are so keen to get any route back to normality at whatever cost. Hence the aggression in so many of these posts.

We're told that these new vaccines are safe. We were told that all the elderly should be vaccinated. Weeks later, countries like Germany decide it's a waste of time for anyone over 60. Then there are arguments over how often you need to be vaccinated, if you're vaccinated, can you be contagious, can you mix n match different vaccines etc etc. Nobody knows the answer as it's being made up as we go along.

My point is that I AM NOT ANTI-VACC. Anybody accusing me of this is obviously angry and intent on sticking their fingers in their ears.

Eventually, once I am confident it is the right thing to do and it is safe, I'll have the vaccine, but right now - no way!

@CharlotteRose90 I can't be bothered to get even with your accusation - I will say though that I said "one of the vaccines" - it was documented that the mRNA vaccine caused this in animals Charlotte, I'm talking about resistance due to trials.
In my initial post, I suggested that because it is well known that you can still spread the virus and still catch it after having had the vaccine, there is simply no need to vaccinate everyone, just the vulnerable and elderly if they want it.

sandieshaw it’s a bad path to go down to force people to vaccinate or be discriminated. As human beings we shouldn’t be forced in to that.

I’m not anti vax by the way, my granny has just had hers and I’m over the moon and by kids have all had their jabs. But threatening a job loss if they don’t vaccinate - no.

This is giving the impression that those who have been vaccinated are free to travel and start living as normal. I have seen nothing yet that states there is evidence that the vaccine prevents transmission. It seems to be jumping the gun here to even suggest vaccine 'passports' until we know what effect the vaccines have on transmission rates.

I think it's outrageous that people will be coerced into a medical procedure they do not want. It is never ok to force someone, which is what it is. The government are just letting companies do it so they can say "it's not our fault" otherwise they'd legislate against it. Yes people can choose not to fly or go to concerts etc, but they need to work and be able to shop to eat. They are not being given a choice when they're being forced, by being coerced.

I am likely losing my job soon as I will not have it and although it's illegal, they will find a way round it to sack me for not having it.

People would be up in arms if it was to do with race or sexuality, etc.

What about those who cannot have it?!

OP have you heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? You're not as clever as you think you are.

So you have a choice not to have a vaccine but you want airlines etc not to have a choice

I’m not anti vax by the way, my granny has just had hers and I’m over the moon and by kids have all had their jabs. But threatening a job loss if they don’t vaccinate - no. that depends. I know someone who is currently shielding and although she can work from home is refusing to. She has said she refuses to have the vaccine but then expects her employer to support her for as long as she feels she needs to sit on her arse at home.

I do think an employer should have the right to dismiss someone on those grounds.

People would be up in arms if it was to do with race or sexuality, etc. I didn’t know I could have chosen to be black instead? Who knew.

*I am likely losing my job soon as I will not have it and although it's illegal, they will find a way round it to sack me for not having it.

People would be up in arms if it was to do with race or sexuality, etc.

What about those who cannot have it?!*

I assume those who can not have it for medical reasons will be covered by the equality act.
I don't agree with people who are CURRENTLY employed having this made a condition of employment. I think certain companies- eg health and social care- should perhaps consider it for future employees.