Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

@m0therofdragons
difficult, isnt it?

I am BAME. The idea that a care home worker, BAME or not, can infect the vulnerable is horrifying to me. Historical wariness can't be allowed to colour basic health standards.

@Arobase

And yet specialist lawyers have said that it probably is. Do you know better

Well, your very 'factual' BBC piece (in your words) is quoting solicitors who are disputing this, so...

However, demanding staff are vaccinated would be unlawful in the "majority of circumstances", says Ella Bond, an employment lawyer at Harper James solicitors

@Frequentflier

I will be choosing Pimlico Plumbers over any other

Well, it's up to you, if you can stomach having dealings with a character who is willing to abuse his 'employees' in this way.

Pimlico will be fine. They know their way around employment tribunals by now

As for care home workers, those who feel strongly against taking the vaccine now, will just change jobs and move to a different field - perhaps making it more difficult for owners to recruit staff and pushing up costs?

Yes, a true triumph of capitalism indeed

And again, I'm not against these vaccines, but I don't support abusing/taking advantage of people by making vaccination a condition of employment

I'll also be selectively choosing Pimlico Plumbers, as well as any other companies that will be mandating vaccines for all but medically exempt (with doctors letter) or age exempt employees - I want to know that anyone coming into my house or whom I am mixing with in the workplace has had the vaccine.

Well, TrulyDelicious, the fact is you have been on these threads for months first arguing that the vaccines were dangerous and side effects unknown, then arguing that they won't stop transmission, now arguing that it is employee abuse to ask care workers to take the vaccine when 10 million people have taken it, and no significant side effects have been detected. Basically, you are an anti-vaxxer, even if you like to call yourself by another name.

The science is catching up with you though.

Well, I'm not having it, nor are my family.
So, looks like we'll be starving then if we can't go to supermarkets.
I knew it would become compulsory, what happened to chice.

yes the sudden pivots onto the next straw to clutch at are glaringly obvious aren't they?

We'll never have a vaccine against Covid19!
We have got them now but they've been rushed through and the side effects will be horrendous!
Millions have had them and they're fine and there's no evidence of long term damage but they won't prevent transmission or bring community transfer down!
Well maybe they will (of course) but now it's a human rights issue!

Increasingly laughable.

Care workers are replaceable though? Millions unemployed willing to take their place, surely?

I work in the nhs. I had to have a Hep C vaccination in order to work. If I refused, I would not have been employed.

@Frequentflier

I am BAME. The idea that a care home worker, BAME or not, can infect the vulnerable is horrifying to me. Historical wariness can't be allowed to colour basic health standards.

I'm BAME too and how can care workers not pass the virus on? Having the jab doesn't stop the spread at all, maybe you won't get it as bad, maybe you'll die. Russian Roullete, nothing to do with a needle in your arm.

Having the jab doesn't stop the spread at all

Do you even follow the news? They have literally just confirmed that it does mostly block transmission.

@Kokeshi123

Having the jab doesn't stop the spread at all

Do you even follow the news? They have literally just confirmed that it does mostly block transmission.

Oh well, if it was on the news

@minchinfin

yes the sudden pivots onto the next straw to clutch at are glaringly obvious aren't they?

We'll never have a vaccine against Covid19!
We have got them now but they've been rushed through and the side effects will be horrendous!
Millions have had them and they're fine and there's no evidence of long term damage but they won't prevent transmission or bring community transfer down!
Well maybe they will (of course) but now it's a human rights issue!

Increasingly laughable.

Ridiculous. People in less developed and poorer countries would kill for these vaccines and yet all I see is endless moaning about what a terrible thing they are, instead of an absolute godsend. We have five vaccines with proven effectiveness No side effects yet known, and those we know about- sore arms, fever- are better than Covid. At least one prevents transmission, others probably do. Early indications from Israel show rates are falling.

But what about Pimlico Plumbers and his terrible abuse of his indentured staff?

There is a recession going on. If care home managers grew a spine and called their employees' bluff-get vaccinated or lose your job-I doubt we would see many people continue to refuse, and as mentioned, there will be other people who will take their places.

A lot of care home staff are BAME, who are historically wary of vaccines etc, do to what happened to them in the past.

If I were an evil white supremacist who wanted to poison non white people, I can think of more logical ways of doing this than engaging in a multi billion pound effort to develop a vaccine that is getting administered to people of all colours anyway.

Maybe if you're a care home worker and you refuse the vaccine without a valid medical reason, you're in the wrong job.

Devlesko.

I’m assuming you sometimes believe the news? Do you believe there’s a pandemic on? Do you believe Captain Tom died? Or do you cherry pick?

You’ve been on these boards for ages spouting nonsense, but you do sound increasingly ‘not right.’

I think it's absolutely the right way to go.

Given the efficacy of the vaccination we need high compliance to get to the point of it having a benefit or even that awful term 'herd immunity.' That's the reality and the choice that's facing us as a society.

Individualism vs collectivism.

Society only works because we have some agreements about how society works. This is the next one that is facing us.

I agree. I’m NHS, we need to have the vaccine. M
The ones who haven’t had it in my trust are, without feel, the ones who are just a bit thick.

Senior staff, consultants, all accepted the jab. Clever scientists.

@Kokeshi123

There is a recession going on. If care home managers grew a spine and called their employees' bluff-get vaccinated or lose your job-I doubt we would see many people continue to refuse, and as mentioned, there will be other people who will take their places.

A lot of care home staff are BAME, who are historically wary of vaccines etc, do to what happened to them in the past.

If I were an evil white supremacist who wanted to poison non white people, I can think of more logical ways of doing this than engaging in a multi billion pound effort to develop a vaccine that is getting administered to people of all colours anyway.

I support better outreach to BAME care workers for sure. Better materials in their own languages, more explanation, community efforts.

But when it comes down to the wire, they will have to take it along with everyone else. They don't have to be patronised on the grounds that they are too stupid to understand the benefits of the vaccine.

Basically this is a pandemic and a lot of normal rules have gone out of the window.

It wouldn't usually be appropriate for governments to make it illegal for private citizens to meet in each others' houses. That should give us an indication of how unusual the current situation is. So the normal rules of vaccines (for example, that airlines or employers or schools have no right to insist or pressure) do not necessarily apply right now either.

This is an unprecedented situation. I am fine with putting some pressure on.

Otherwise, we are in this ridiculous situation where it is fine for the government to restrict people's liberties in situations like banning hugging or takeaway coffees, but not OK to restrict any liberties when it comes to the very things that are actually going to get us out of this shit. Which is a dysfunctional and ridiculous situation.

There has already been voting with their feet, literally . A relative has now stopped seeing the (private) podiatrist who kept her diabetic feet cared for for years, always got on well with him. Then he decided to advise her she shouldn't have the vaccine, because clearly expertise on bunions, in growing toenails and dead skin on feet qualifies you as a virologist too. Not just that but he told her that in her day people accepted the diseases we now get vaccinated against, and didn't have a "fear culture", indeed they had measles parties to make sure their children caught it.

She informed him how it really worked. How at school she had close friends who disappeared into hospital with diptheria and polio and never came out or emerged with lifelong disabilities. How nobody would have dreamt of having a measles party, her own two children developed serious respiratory illness as a result of measles and are left with a lifelong susceptibility to bronchitis. That wasn't uncommon, and there was worse. Why would you deliberately leave your children in the way of that? What they did have was German Measles parties because they also knew of children left permanently damaged by German Measles in pregnancy and they wanted to make sure that if their children were at risk they could keep them away from pregnant women.

Basically he had dared to gaslight with fake history news someone who lived through it.

Needless to say she has found a new podiatrist who will get vaccinated.

@CountessFrog

Devlesko.

I’m assuming you sometimes believe the news? Do you believe there’s a pandemic on? Do you believe Captain Tom died? Or do you cherry pick?

You’ve been on these boards for ages spouting nonsense, but you do sound increasingly ‘not right.’

I don't watch the news. I'm fine thanks.