Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

Presumably lots of you think that his life should be restricted even more than it is already due to disability, because he won't/can't consent to be being vaccinated?

No, lots of us think that people who can be vaccinated should be, in order to protect people like your son. Do you think your son's support workers should be vaccinated?

Personally, I’m horrified by the number of care home staff refusing it. If I’m trusting them to care for my 94 year old granny then I expect them to be vaccinated. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

@Louisa7747 - I know! That was the point I was making to Boomboom in my last post. I think you’ve misread it!

@Louisa7747 - cross posted 😁

Where I work all staff have had the vaccine, so have all the residents.

@vodkaredbullgirl - that’s brilliant to hear 😊

boomboomboom there have been many cases where parents have turned their backs on modern medicine and relied on prayer to cure their children instead. Most have been in the US.

www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/national-international/ella-foster-faith-healing-death/29977/

www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/religious-parents-refuse-medical-care-baby-dies-oregon

www.ndtv.com/world-news/michigan-baby-dies-after-parents-refused-medical-help-for-religious-reasons-1897535

Just a few examples. There are very many more. Not an opinion - sadly fact.

This is what I meant when I said turning your back on modern medicine means people die.

You're having the vaccine, so clearly you accept that it is possible to have faith and access modern medicine.

Believe me, it is when you are reporting a 'fact' which has been debunked at least twice a week

But it hasn't, @trulydelicious. You are confusing different things - government intentions and what private businesses intend to do. I haven't seen any debunking of the latter; on the contrary, I have seen some private business owners making official announcements that it is their intention to require employees/people using their services to be vaccinated unless they are legally exempt.

@UserEleventyNine

Presumably lots of you think that his life should be restricted even more than it is already due to disability, because he won't/can't consent to be being vaccinated?

No, lots of us think that people who can be vaccinated should be, in order to protect people like your son. Do you think your son's support workers should be vaccinated?

His support workers have been offered vaccines as social care staff.

Sorry, I admittedly had only read the first couple of pages, but all the people saying unvaccinated people shouldn't be allowed on planes, because they could have the vaccine if they wanted to go on holiday etc. presumed that it really was as simple as free will.

The insurance company covers it. Or the individual covers it if they want to travel without insurance. It is personal responsibility to make sure they suitably protect themselves from Covid, personal responsibility to make sure they do not infect others, and personal responsibility to make sure they can afford to travel

If they are incapable of taking personal responsibility for their own actions, leave them to learn their lesson in a foreign country, or prevent them from travelling in the first place.

The trouble is that there will be people, particularly the young who think "It won't happen to me", who will decide to take the risk of travelling without insurance. Then when they get stranded abroad seriously ill, it becomes the duty of the British consul wherever they are to look after them and get them shipped back to the UK, where the NHS has to take over. Sure, the consulate can seek to recover costs, but good luck with that - especially if the person dies or develops long covid and can't earn for years or possibly for ever.

I'd rather believe in God than believe that a miracle vaccine will cure the world

Isn't it at least possible that God's method of answering all those prayers is to give us scientists with the ability to develop vaccines?

If not, you have to wonder why he didn't just stop the whole thing in its tracks back in 2019.

@Arobase

I'd rather believe in God than believe that a miracle vaccine will cure the world

Isn't it at least possible that God's method of answering all those prayers is to give us scientists with the ability to develop vaccines?

If not, you have to wonder why he didn't just stop the whole thing in its tracks back in 2019.

Haha, good point! Maybe "he"was on a coffee break.

[quote Inastatus]@Nerdygirl

Sky News headlines earlier today:

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine may have a "substantial effect" on transmission of coronavirus, and a three-month gap between doses does not lower protection, according to a report.

Tests results by University of Oxford, published in a pre-print report with The Lancet, showed a 67% reduction in positive COVID-19 swabs among those vaccinated.[/quote]
This is wonderful and reassuring news

BoomBoom I have faith too but I thank God for medicine.

I was reminded of this joke:

A man was stuck on his rooftop during a flood and prayed to God to help him.

Soon a person in a boat came by and shouted to the man on the roof, "hop in, I can help you."

The stranded man shouted back, "No, I'm praying to God to save me."

So the boat went away.

Then a dingy came by. "The person in the dingy shouted, "hop in, I can help you."

To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God to save me."

So the dingy went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "hop on this rope, I can help you"

To this the stranded man replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God to save me.”

So the helicopter left.

Soon the water rose and the man drowned and went to Heaven. He said to God, "I had faith in you but you let me drown!”

God replied, "I sent you a boat, a dingy and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

@TLIMSISNW - very good

@Arobase

I have seen some private business owners making official announcements that it is their intention to require employees/people using their services to be vaccinated

Some publicity-hungry maverick business owner like the Pimlico Plumbers guy expressing his intention to force his 'employees' to be inoculated does not mean that it is lawful for him to actually do it.

So bringing up this issue repeatedly by the BBC and present it as a form of 'fact' to try and sway public opinion and make everyone more receptive to the idea (including global vaccine passports) equals propaganda to me, of course

Some publicity-hungry maverick business owner like the Pimlico Plumbers guy expressing his intention to force his 'employees' to be inoculated does not mean that it is lawful for him to actually do it.

And yet specialist lawyers have said that it probably is. Do you know better?

It's quite amazing, isn't it, that only yesterday posters were arguing that there is no evidence that vaccinations prevent transmission, so they won't get the vaccine, and now there is evidence trickling in that they do.

@Arobase
They couldnt "force" as in pin down and force.

Agree @trulydelicious
Employers can do things, then someone takes them to an employment tribunal, to see if it was legal or not.

Employment tribunal cases take about 1 year. So cases are likely to be heard end of 2021 and 2022.
We will know far more then.

Nobody is going to pin down and force anyone. The market is going to be making all the decisions. I can tell you that as someone with a vulnerable DH, and also as someone who has recently moved into a new flat which needs a lot of plumbing, I will be choosing Pimlico Plumbers over any other. Publicity hungry or not. Just as I will be choosing airlines which ask their staff to be vaccinated. And all other service providers. A true triumph of capitalism.

@m0therofdragons
A lot of care home staff are BAME, who are historically wary of vaccines etc, do to what happened to them in the past.
There are obvs a lot of younger people too.
They will have heard rumours. Plus polls say younger people are a lot more gung ho about not getting covid bad, than older people.

The market is going to be making all the decisions
I know what you are saying, but the gov of any country will be deciding things too.
Plus the legal system. Including employment tribunals etc.

@lightand I completely understand this but we need to educate quickly because the cultural differences are putting our loved ones at risk.