Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

Where is our freedom of speech?

You realise the fact you are asking that means you don't lack freedom of speech?

Why do you just target the BBC, @trulydelicious? They certainly aren't the only people reporting this.

Nor does it mean that people will have to carry a vaccine passport. . Airlines/employers etc can simply require that they produce a letter or similar document confirming that they've been vaccinated. The government is not in a position to say this won't happen as (aside from provisions such as the Equality Act) it is not entitled to control conditions set on use of services or employment by private enterprises.

@trulydelicious

Can anyone explain to me why we should be listening to what the Tony Blair Institute is saying?

I can’t. It’s really fucking weird. I really do believe there is bots on this thread now.

Tony Blair is no longer apart of our government and it’s a war criminal who deserves to be in prison.

All this ‘if you get sacked’ or ‘you can’t enter events/places’ is pointless as it will never happen. It’s just posters ‘bots’ trying to stir up fear.

@Arobase

Why do you just target the BBC

They continue to relentlessly push this idea when it has been discussed and explained at lenght that there are no plans in the UK to do this.

Airlines/employers etc can simply require that they produce a letter or similar document confirming that they've been vaccinated

In that case they will be sued for discriminating those who could not/were not prepared to receive the vaccine/medical treatment for whatever reason

@Emptytank

It’s just posters ‘bots’ trying to stir up fear

I thik so too

thik=think

@trulydelicious, reporting facts isn't pushing an idea.

In that case they will be sued for discriminating those who could not/were not prepared to receive the vaccine/medical treatment for whatever reason

No, they won't. You can't be sued for discrimination in a vacuum; the person claiming has to be within one of the protected categories. Given that people doing this have clearly stated that they will accept people who are genuinely exempt, they're in the clear.

So people who don’t want to have it and still want to travel. What do you plan to do about travel insurance? What if you catch covid and are hospitalised abroad?

There's no freedom to spread infection. If you don't have the vaccine, you are a potential danger to others in society, so there are certain requirements you have to fulfill if you want to take part fully in everything.

@Arobase

reporting facts isn't pushing an idea

Believe me, it is when you are reporting a 'fact' which has been debunked at least twice a week

@Technonan

There's no freedom to spread infection

It hasn't been proven that Covid vaccines can prevent transmission. So you can be vaccinated and still spread the disease.

Sexuality, race, gender are not choices, so of course it wouldn't apply.

@trulydelicious. It's unknown, but experts believe it will reduce the risk (and may stop you spreading it altogether). To get this under control, we need herd immunity. Herd immunity means that, if a vaccine is 90% effective, then 70% of the population need to be vaccinated to keep the community safe. With a lower efficacy, then you need more people vaccinated.

Everyone who does not have the vaccine without a valid reason (and some people genuinely can't have it) makes the community less safe.

The wording and spelling in your OP has several errors, yet on your other posts you sound very articulate.

It's weird OP - something doesn't look right

Again, as people seem to be wilfully ignoring the reality. You already need to have proof of vaccination against certain diseases to travel to other countries, just not yet Covid. If a country makes vaccination a condition of entry (and they are already doing that with the requirement of a negative test ) then they won’t let you in. It isn’t just rare and exotic diseases like Yellow Fever, vaccination against both bird flu and swine flu have been made conditions of entry to some countries, as well as passing a temperature check. The temperature check never went away in some countries after SARS and was the first thing to be reinstated.

Not enough is known on the impact of vaccination on transmission, or indeed whether the Covid factories in the U.K., USA, Brazil etc will succeed in helping Covid develop vaccine resistance (a definite risk in the U.K. wide experimental trials of delaying the second dose) to say whether that would be a rational decision. However many countries in the world are pursuing a policy of disease suppression and it would not be illogical to require proof of vaccination as an additional safeguard to their strategy or a tool to allow some opening up of tourist industries. I fully expect it from some countries, especially in Asia. I very much doubt anyone who refuses the vaccine will get to sit on the beach in Thailand for instance.

@Technonan

I agree that those who want and can have these vaccines should have them. Early data suggests that they are safe and effective - e.g. Israel

But I don't think it's right to make them mandatory or to make the provision of services conditional on vaccination (due to body autonomy)

Anyway, I think the BBC are pushing an agenda as is the OP

@Emilyontmoor

I very much doubt anyone who refuses the vaccine will get to sit on the beach in Thailand for instance

Then Thai beaches could be half-empty, so what? (though I don't think this will necessarily happen as most are keen to be vaccinated, which is a good thing)

And most of those countries are not “communistic” whatever that is. A word almost certainly acquired from some US funded right wing website where it shorthand for anything community minded or even left of Ghengis Khan......

No one is being forced. You want to travel, you follow whatever rules are in place. That includes sitting down on the plane and wearing your seatbelt or being thrown off the plane. It also includes having a passport. For some places, it includes mandatory vaccination (yellow fever). It's fine not to want the passport or the yellow fever vaccine, but that has as a consequence that travel to certain places is not allowed.

Truly I wasn’t particularly commenting on the welfare of the Thai tourist industry so much as the impact on those who are Covid deniers / vaccine resisters. It’s become a bit of a rite of passage for hedonistic twenty somethings to hit the Thai resorts, some of which are now just Aya Napa and Magaluf in the tropics. Indeed they are still managing somehow to get out there via Singapore and causing problems having large gatherings. And Thai resorts cater to a much more mainstream demographic too. I suspect the onward leg to Australia and NZ will close off too.

@trulydelicious

Can anyone explain to me why we should be listening to what the Tony Blair Institute is saying?

We shouldn't, but we have freedom of speech (despite what our rabid paranoid anti-communist would have you believe), so I say let them talk, and let them throw as much money as they want to sway public opinion any which way they like. That is the backbone of our freedom of speech and democracy.

@Sidewalksue

So people who don’t want to have it and still want to travel. What do you plan to do about travel insurance? What if you catch covid and are hospitalised abroad?

The insurance company covers it. Or the individual covers it if they want to travel without insurance. It is personal responsibility to make sure they suitably protect themselves from Covid, personal responsibility to make sure they do not infect others, and personal responsibility to make sure they can afford to travel.

If they are incapable of taking personal responsibility for their own actions, leave them to learn their lesson in a foreign country, or prevent them from travelling in the first place.

Where the hell are people's personal responsibilities in all this?

They are not proven to stop transmission and there is limited information available on this and also safety. Someone who is being cautious about vaccines and has some concerns about what a government who have proven to lie plus pharmaceutical companies doesn’t make them a covid denier or anti vaxxer. Especially as Chris Whitty says this is not a high consequence infectious disease and the majority will get it mildly . If you are vulnerable and the risk of getting it is greater then the risk of the vaccine is less so go ahead. But a healthy person having reservations should not be forced to take it

@trulydelicious Someone who is not vaccinated should not be on a plane. It's very easy to pass infections on there. It's possible the vaccinated can pass on Covid, but by no means certain. It's not a major problem with vaccines, which is why a good vaccine can stop an epidemic.

The unvaccinated traveller may be infected, and if so, will carry the Covid infection to people who are unvaccinated for valid health reasons, which will put their lives at risk, and also risk starting off another round of infection. The more the infection carries on, the greater the chance of a mutation arising that is resistant to the current vaccines. Back we go into lockdown, deaths and all the rest of it.

I guess it's a matter of individual choice, but people who refuse to be vaccinated without a valid reason reduce herd immunity, and are a potential hazard to the health of others. Therefore, there will be things they shouldn't be able to do. It's a bit like your having the freedom to drink, but not the freedom to drive a car once you have done so, because you are putting others in danger.

Can I just point out a simple concept to those of you who are saying 'the vaccine has not been proven to prevent transmission'?

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Stop deliberately omitting the word 'yet' from your statements.