Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

So OP I'm with you, it would be ridiculous to deny someone a service because they didn't take the vaccine. They are only putting their own health at risk by remaining unvaccinated, and are not adding any more danger to others than the vaccinated population.

So, presumably these unvaccinated people are going to refuse a hospital bed when their health deteriorates? Because of course the main threat right now is the overwhelming of the NHS which will most certainly affect other people who need treatment but can't access it.

@DuaneAgain

So OP I'm with you, it would be ridiculous to deny someone a service because they didn't take the vaccine. They are only putting their own health at risk by remaining unvaccinated, and are not adding any more danger to others than the vaccinated population.

So, presumably these unvaccinated people are going to refuse a hospital bed when their health deteriorates? Because of course the main threat right now is the overwhelming of the NHS which will most certainly affect other people who need treatment but can't access it.

Through this whole mess the NHS has never been overwhelmed and figures just released show that with combined vaccine role out and lock down deaths and cases have started drop for the first time since before Xmas.

A communistic approach!

Oh, don’t be silly.

@QueenoftheAir

A communistic approach!

Oh, don’t be silly.

If you are forced and without a choice it is a communist approach. Where is our freedom of choice? Where is our freedom of speech? Have you lived in a communist state to know what's like? Well, I lived in one and it got to a point when food was given on ratio card there was no freedom of speech...when you spoke up you got arrested...you didn't own land as it belonged to the state and it all started with slowly restricting people's rights.

People in England don't know what's like to have your rights slowly being taken away because this is unprecedented in this country .
You will soon see.
And for how long will you continue to comply? For years to come or just for a few more months? Don't forget variants keep on popping up around the world. This will never end

@DuaneAgain

So OP I'm with you, it would be ridiculous to deny someone a service because they didn't take the vaccine. They are only putting their own health at risk by remaining unvaccinated, and are not adding any more danger to others than the vaccinated population.

So, presumably these unvaccinated people are going to refuse a hospital bed when their health deteriorates? Because of course the main threat right now is the overwhelming of the NHS which will most certainly affect other people who need treatment but can't access it.

Omg will you stop saying things like this? The NHS is not private insurance that can be refused to people that haven't had the vaccine.

We all pay into the NHS and it comes out automatically out of our wages. Why should people be refused care? Don't you see is damn right ridiculous and evil for that matter?
We should then be allowed to instead of paying for the NHS to take a private insurance. People like you are damn right evil and all you care is about yourself. Don't forget to clap for the NHS and then go into your house and report your neighbors.

There are millions out that that refused vaccinations for one reason or another. Let's talk about the measles vaccine ( forget we had a pandemic in 2017-2018?)...why hasn't this vaccine become compulsory?

Through this whole mess the NHS has never been overwhelmed

Really? Come and shadow a couple of shifts in my area and say that again. How clueless can you be?

Yes, figures are coming down because of lockdown and vaccination, but we absolutely have been overwhelmed. Our staff are at breaking point.

If you are forced and without a choice it is a communist approach.

No. It could equally be fascist. Either way, it’s not what that word means. Why do people use ‘communist’ when they mean ‘totalitarian’ or ‘authoritarian’?

Regardless, what OP describes is potential actions by private companies if not constrained by government regulation to force them to offer these goods/services to the unvaccinated. That’s free market capitalism.

@lunar1

I look forward to being able to pick services etc where everyone will be vaccinated.

Totally agree with this.

Bloody anti vaxxers are going to be the death of us.

If you are forced and without a choice it is a communist approach.
No is is dictatorial. Get a dictionary and read it. Six people have already told you you don't understand the word, so maybe you should go and check the word you are using.

The NHS is not private insurance that can be refused to people that haven't had the vaccine.
Correct - The person in hospital has no choice to be there. They are having other people's will forced upon them. At the very least they should be permitted the right to have their health protected from infection by the people forcing themselves upon them. Everyone NHS staff member should be vaccinated. If they refuse, sack them.

My personal opinion is that Communism and Dictatorship go hand in hand because Communism is a political/economic system that’s incompatible with human nature (humans and all life compete for resources), so it succumbs to dictatorship because people will always compete to benefit themselves and their family first.

@AStudyinPink
*So if employers can demand their staff get vaccinated or give a bloody good reason why not this forces women to disclose their pregnancy plans and hopes.

Yep. It is morally bankrupt nonsense. Forcing women of childbearing age to compromise their ability to have children or disclose their private information in such a way that it might affect their employment.

It won’t happen. These people need to avail themselves of a grip*

I think you could be wrong there, if I am understanding this barrister correctly[which I may not be]

If I am understanding him correctly[and again I will say I may not be, and people should listen to the video themselves]
an employer can dismiss someone, and then it is up to the employee to take them to an employment tribunal to establish whether the employer had acted legally or not.
The process could take 12 months, and meanwhile the employee has no income[unless gets another job in the interim]. The employee may win and get compensation, or they may not win. But either way, in the first instance the employer can dismiss someone.

Interestingly, he thinks Muslims may have a case if they were to be dismissed, as he was unable to find out anywhere, whether the vaccines have pork gelatine in them or not. [I think he meant all covid vaccinations, but I need to re listen to see what he exactly said about that].

He also has another youtube video about whether the UK gov can force covid vaccinations onto people.
Short answer[and again dont quote me] is no, not currently, under an Act of 1983, and the CoronaVirus Act 2020.

@lightand

Interestingly, he thinks Muslims may have a case if they were to be dismissed, as he was unable to find out anywhere, whether the vaccines have pork gelatine in them or not. [I think he meant all covid vaccinations, but I need to re listen to see what he exactly said about that].

He also has another youtube video about whether the UK gov can force covid vaccinations onto people.
Short answer[and again dont quote me] is no, not currently, under an Act of 1983, and the CoronaVirus Act 2020.

It is exactly this kind of nonsense that is causing vaccine suspicion amongst BAME people, who are most at risk. The NHS specifically says that there are no animal products in the vaccine. ( scroll down the page) Not sure how he had so much trouble finding this out. www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/coronavirus-vaccine/

He made that video on 17 Dec 2020. Perhaps that was true when he stated it.
I have no intention of accusing a barrister that he is wrong!

fwiw, I started a thread on the legal matters board.
His videos were posted on that page[by someone legal??]

@boomboomboom1000

My personal opinion is that Communism and Dictatorship go hand in hand because Communism is a political/economic system that’s incompatible with human nature (humans and all life compete for resources), so it succumbs to dictatorship because people will always compete to benefit themselves and their family first.

ROFLMAO.

But we have a conservative government that is pretty far right compared to previous governments, and any imposition of law without the will of the people is still dictatorial. If corporations then collude in the efforts to reinforce those dictated positions, that becomes Fascism, not Communism.

There are many regimes exerting dictatorial rule over their populations, many extremely right wing, and many extremely left wing. And some centreline and benign, like the UAE. They are still dictatorial and not democratic. You can't paint the entire world outside your own comfort zone as 'Communist' whether you have been in a communist country or not. The world is not blue and red!

I think in the free market, freedom of choice should be left to run its course.

In regard to those already empowered to force their own will upon others who are helpless to defend themselves (nurses, care workers, police, teachers, etc.) one solution would be for the Govt. to introduce emergency measures to compel all NHS trusts to remove contact between unvaccinated staff and patients. Then leave the NHS to sort the problem out. The staff can be given warnings that they must attend work and comply with the law, or be considered ascent follow disciplinary proceedings and eventually sacked.

It only takes one law to clarify that you are not permitted to force yourself upon another individual who is not capable of protecting themselves and who is in a vulnerable position.

The idea that a nurse or a care worker is allowed to say, I'm gonna do what I want and the patients can go and F themselves, is outrageous, when the nurse or the care worker have the freedom to choose. They have the freedom to go anywhere and do any job. Their patient has not choice.

It is exactly this kind of nonsense that is causing vaccine suspicion amongst BAME people, who are most at risk. The NHS specifically says that there are no animal products in the vaccine. ( scroll down the page) Not sure how he had so much trouble finding this out.
No. Is this some idiot that thinks by taking a vaccine he is in some way consuming animals? FFS. RNA comes from human stem cells, not animal stem cells, and these come human foetuses. If you want to label it in terms of consumption, it would be cannibalism. That is a ridiculous extrapolation.

If you are forced and without a choice it is a communist approach.

As people have pointed out, no, it isn't a communist approach. And no-one is forcing you to take plane journeys. You are also free to look for jobs where employers don't demand that you be vaccinated.

Where is our freedom of speech?

How are you being deprived of it? You are, for instance, freely posting your views on here.

Can anyone explain to me why we should be listening to what the Tony Blair Institute is saying?

Why does the BBC continue to spout this crap?

It has been said on a number of occassions that vaccine passports will not be implemented in the UK

Interestingly, he thinks Muslims may have a case if they were to be dismissed, as he was unable to find out anywhere, whether the vaccines have pork gelatine in them or not. [I think he meant all covid vaccinations, but I need to re listen to see what he exactly said about that]

If he couldn't find the nhs page that I found in 10 seconds that explains it, he's the worlds shittest barrister. Probably why he's spending his time making youtube videos for morons.