Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

It doesn't matter what the risks are. Everybody has a right to bodily autonomy. You can insist on a C section, you can refuse a blood transfusion. They're our rights, no matter your opinions, you have a right to decide whether your organs can be donated after you die, it has no impact on you, you're dead, but it would save multiple peoples lives, you STILL have a right to refuse.

It's insane that so many people want to give their rights to choose what medical procedures are carried out on them to the government and their employer.

It's not just antivaxxers, everybody will lose their rights to bodily autonomy.
China has shown that a government will force sterilisations and abortions (even of full term babies) why make it easy for them?

Happens all the time. Fluoride is added to drinking water here and on other countries. Folic acid us added to all bread in some countries. Because it's felt that it's for the good of society and the individual that it be done.

Flouride isn't added to most of the UK water supply, and it's actually quite a controversial intervention.

Happens all the time. Fluoride is added to drinking water here and on other countries. Folic acid us added to all bread in some countries. Because it's felt that it's for the good of society and the individual that it be done.

But as we know, some people shouldn’t have the vaccine. It can’t be delivered in that way precisely because (among other reasons) - like it or not - there are risks. And it’s not up to you or anyone else whether someone shoulders those risks. It’s up to them.

@Godimabitch

It doesn't matter what the risks are. Everybody has a right to bodily autonomy. You can insist on a C section, you can refuse a blood transfusion. They're our rights, no matter your opinions, you have a right to decide whether your organs can be donated after you die, it has no impact on you, you're dead, but it would save multiple peoples lives, you STILL have a right to refuse.

It's insane that so many people want to give their rights to choose what medical procedures are carried out on them to the government and their employer.

It's not just antivaxxers, everybody will lose their rights to bodily autonomy.
China has shown that a government will force sterilisations and abortions (even of full term babies) why make it easy for them?

There is a huge difference between 'if you want to work in a clerical role on SCBU, we'll need to check you aren't able to kill the babies from Measles or TB before you start - and give you a means to make sure that you can't' and 'we're going to forcibly excise your unborn child from your womb because your genetics are shit compared to ours/we need you to cover the Friday afternoon clinic'.

@Propagandalf

If you can have the vaccine and you are able to, then you should get the vaccine imo.

Allergic reaction? Then yes that's a valid excuse, or at least seek an alternative vaccine.

Asthma? That's also a valid excuse but again seek an alternative. I know an asthmatic who would take the Pfizer vaccine, but was able to take the Oxford one.

Religious reasons? Not an excuse. Saving yourself and others should take precedent.

Microchips? You can fuck right off.

Anti-vaxxers are a hindrance for us getting back to normal. And I don't mean the 'new normal' as that can sod right off too.

Asthma is not a contraindication to having the vaccine....not sure where that has come from. Unless you mean anaphylaxis instead.

It doesn't matter what the risks are. Everybody has a right to bodily autonomy. You can insist on a C section, you can refuse a blood transfusion. They're our rights, no matter your opinions, you have a right to decide whether your organs can be donated after you die, it has no impact on you, you're dead, but it would save multiple peoples lives, you STILL have a right to refuse.

Nobody is saying you don't! We're saying that you are free to make that choice, 100%, and then other people are free to not want you in some places. You don't have the right to have everyone else be ok with your choices. You don't have the right to endanger others.

You are 100% within your rights to refuse the vaccine. Other people have the right to not have you near them.
Or did you just care about your rights, and not anyone elses?

@NeverDropYourMoonCup
There is a huge difference, but you start with something small, and it quietly snowballs, each time a small loss of rights, probably wont even make the papers. People think its absurd and would never happen.
But it has happened, very recently in fact. You need to understand that.

We have a right to decide what we do to our own bodies, it would be stupid to give that right away to force someone else to have a vaccine.

I think some people are going to be really fucking disappointed when places don’t close to to people that haven’t been vaccinated.

Bloody hell OP dramatic much?
It is not a communist approach (do some reading) it is saying that people who have been vaccinated can have access to travel and concerts sooner as they are deemed safer.
Australia won't let children attend school if they haven't been vaccinated (usual childhood jabs) and they are far from communist.

Also the poster who said people would forge it why bother well we have passports, birth certificates and driving licences that can be forged it doesn't mean we dont bother with those things we just make it difficult to do and try to spot the fakes.

Personally I think it's a good idea and will get things moving and I say that as someone who will be in one of the last groups to get it.

Nobody is saying you don't! We're saying that you are free to make that choice, 100%, and then other people are free to not want you in some places. You don't have the right to have everyone else be ok with your choices. You don't have the right to endanger others.

You are not endangering them any more than they are endangering themselves. They have the choice to separate themselves from other people. Each person has the choice about whether to accept medical intervention. It’s not okay to say other people have to do X, Y or X because your freedom is important. Coerce yourself, not others.

My friend has this attitude of 'I'm not having it, they don't know enough about it' but then expects to ride the heard immunity and enjoy life when everyone else has. Selfish cunt, I look at her very differently now.

[quote Godimabitch]@NeverDropYourMoonCup
There is a huge difference, but you start with something small, and it quietly snowballs, each time a small loss of rights, probably wont even make the papers. People think its absurd and would never happen.
But it has happened, very recently in fact. You need to understand that.

We have a right to decide what we do to our own bodies, it would be stupid to give that right away to force someone else to have a vaccine.[/quote]
This is not how the Nazis started.

No honestly, I think it's wonderful idea. But let's not stop at the Covid vaccine, I think all vaccines for every known disease should be compulsory, including yearly flu jabs. Also, compulsory organ donation and blood donation, I mean you can live with one kidney just fine, so you should do everything you can to save lives. Oh and while we're there - I think we should impose restrictions on traveling (climate change) and DEFINITELY ban cars - Can you imagine how many lives we can save? I haven't even mentioned plastic, cosmetics production etc etc. And one- child policy, world is overpopulated and resources are finite. What? You don't like it? Though luck. You live in society, make sacrifices.

You are not endangering them any more than they are endangering themselves. They have the choice to separate themselves from other people. Each person has the choice about whether to accept medical intervention. It’s not okay to say other people have to do X, Y or X because your freedom is important. Coerce yourself, not others.

People should hide themselves away because you won't get a vaccine? No thanks. You hide, if you're that bothered.
The rules are going to be made in the best interests of the greatest number, and in the interest of the vulnerable, the elderly etc. If you choose not to be socially responsible and do the right things for others, fine. But don't expect the rest of society to be ok with it and make accomodations for you.

You want your individialistic rights..you have them. But society has rights too, and yours dont trump everyone elses. Stop pretending anyone is going to make you do anything, they aren't. If you don't like the possible consequences of refusing, maybe think again.

"I think that’s what some people tend to say when other people disagree with them."

No, it's how people look when they are deliberately misunderstanding what people are saying in order to score cheap internet points.

People should hide themselves away because you won't get a vaccine? No thanks. You hide, if you're that bothered.

I’m not sure that makes any sense. Look, it’s like this: you think it’s so important that you should be able to go out and about without risk that you believe you have the right to coerce others to accept drugs into their bodies to protect you. I don’t think that. I think you have the right to do what the fuck you like with your own body, including keeping it away from mine. But that’s it.

No, it's how people look when they are deliberately misunderstanding what people are saying in order to score cheap internet points.

In what way did that happen, then?

Stop pretending anyone is going to make you do anything, they aren't. If you don't like the possible consequences of refusing, maybe think again.

And I know they aren’t, because they don’t have legal recourse. I don’t need to think again in any case, because as it happens I have no objection to getting the vaccine.

@NicolasCage

No honestly, I think it's wonderful idea. But let's not stop at the Covid vaccine, I think all vaccines for every known disease should be compulsory, including yearly flu jabs. Also, compulsory organ donation and blood donation, I mean you can live with one kidney just fine, so you should do everything you can to save lives. Oh and while we're there - I think we should impose restrictions on traveling (climate change) and DEFINITELY ban cars - Can you imagine how many lives we can save? I haven't even mentioned plastic, cosmetics production etc etc. And one- child policy, world is overpopulated and resources are finite. What? You don't like it? Though luck. You live in society, make sacrifices.

Would that mean I'd get my annual flu jab sooner if it were compulsory? Normally have it booked by the second week of September.

Organ donation? I'll be dead, so I wouldn't be able to do much about it, would I? Wouldn't be suitable for donation, anyhow.

Blood donation - done it, they don't want it now I'm on biologics. They certainly won't want a kidney, either.

Restrictions on travelling - meh. I'm not going to break my heart over other people not getting their 7-12 flights overseas a year.

No private cars - meh.

Plastics - I'd far rather have things provided wrapped in waxed paper/loose/paper bags anyhow.

Cosmetics? Well, I don't particularly need snail slime or exudate from animal's anal glands, ta very much.

One child? Wrong target demographic. No babies happening here.

I honestly think @AStudyinPink is just being deliberately obtuse at this point.

They 100% are. They were on another thread recently relentlessly arguing that unless someone could explain something (in that case the concept of infinity) to them in simple layman's English (and it had to be described in English words, no forumulas, graphs or pictures allowed) they wouldn't accept it as true.

It was mind-boggling the lengths they went to to deliberately miss the point.

I'm also genuinely shocked they have an opinion on this subject at all as I'd imagine it would be quite difficult to explain covid without making reference to medical/scientific terms so I can't see how they'd have accepted covid as a reality yet.

NeverDropYourMoonCup

I'm happy with your approach, but I'm afraid you're in minority. Also, you can donate organs while still alive- there are people that do that for their parents, partners, siblings. But if people feel so strongly about vaccines I think they should prove they really want to be a part of society and save lives and just donate their kidney to a stranger. I bet majority of those shouting aren't even registered bone marrow donors.

Look, it’s like this: you think it’s so important that you should be able to go out and about without risk that you believe you have the right to coerce others to accept drugs into their bodies to protect you

I didn't say that. I said that society and the government will make the rules about who can do what, and if they are that you must have the vaccine to go certain places and do certain things, then I am just fine with that.

The difference is that my thinking is about protecting the vulnerable in society, and yours is only about protecting yourself. The fact that you think my stance is about me just shows that more. My opinion is about the protection of society as a whole, yours is a foot stamping tantrum about your individual rights.
You can see why these opinions are not equal.

I bet majority of those shouting aren't even registered bone marrow donors.

I am

Buccanarab

Still, no. I mean everything I’m saying.