Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

I wasn't speak to or about you Max. The people who actually can't be vaccinated are one of the very compelling reasons the rest of us need to be vaccinated.
When I say the likes of OP need to think less of themselves and more about others, you are the others.

@SushiSoozie

I’m sure OP know what the risks are to herself

I imagine she does. But she needs to think about other people as well as herself. That's literally the point.

Sometimes Sushi it’s ok to put yourself first - especially in her situation. This is fucking bonkers! Honestly I swear this site is full robots.

Max last time I had a vaccination I had really bad effects with I’m still living today
MN but what about the OTHERS!!!

Sometimes Sushi it’s ok to put yourself first - especially in her situation. This is fucking bonkers! Honestly I swear this site is full robots

What is the OP's situtation then? Cos all I can see is she doesn't want to have it.
Did you mix up the OP with another poster, by any chance?

Max last time I had a vaccination I had really bad effects with I’m still living todayMN but what about the OTHERS!!!

Oh look, you did!

glassacorn

But nobody has a right to force you to accept drugs to protect themselves. Think about that. You are saying otherwise. You’re wrong.

Here's a RL scenario. The PM has been talking about it this afternoon.

Take up of the vaccine among care home staff has been 'an issue'.

If you had a relative in a care home who couldn't have the vaccine for genuine medical reasons, would you want them to be cared for by someone who had chosen not to have it?

Or would you think the management would be justified in saying that staff must be vaccinated to protect patients?

(There is now an increased uptake among care home staff, the PM said.)

If you had a relative in a care home who couldn't have the vaccine for genuine medical reasons, would you want them to be cared for by someone who had chosen not to have it?

I wouldn’t want them to be cared for by all sorts of people. It doesn’t give me the right to breach their medical autonomy, or have them fired. My job in that scenario would be to decide whether that risk was too great for my relative, and remove them if so.

But surely they keep saying that there is no proof the vaccines stop transmission so getting on a plane with or without the vaccine will be irrelevant. If you haven’t had the vaccine it might mean you become more ill a week or two later but surely that is the. That persons choice. I don’t see what difference it will make to the airlines.

@AStudyinPink

glassacorn

But nobody has a right to force you to accept drugs to protect themselves. Think about that. You are saying otherwise. You’re wrong.

No, because that goes against your rights. I suspect you wilfully misunderstood me there. 🙂 However, it is possible to exclude you from places (such as shopping centres, etc.) to protect others. That wouldn't be against your rights and would preserve others'. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@UserEleventyNine *Here's a RL scenario. The PM has been talking about it this afternoon.

Take up of the vaccine among care home staff has been 'an issue*

Maybe because take up isnt 100% anyway
Maybe because some of the staff are women of childbearing age.
Maybe because there are a lot of BAME childbearing age women too who are carehome staff.

• No, because that goes against your rights. I suspect you wilfully misunderstood me there. 🙂 However, it is possible to exclude you from places (such as shopping centres, etc.) to protect others. That wouldn't be against your rights and would preserve others'. 🤷🏼‍♀️*

I don’t think so. I think that would be considered coercive, since the person would be unable to live a normal life because of your belief that they owe you an action that goes against their own belief in what is best for their health.

But surely they keep saying that there is no proof the vaccines stop transmission so getting on a plane with or without the vaccine will be irrelevant

No proof YET, but the expectation is that it does. Science is not simple, so what you don't understand, trust the people who do!

Shopping centres are not going to close to people who haven’t had the covid jab!

Every single women who doesn’t want the jab can just say she’s trying to get pregnant.

I think when all the over fifties have been done the restrictions will relax massively. No Vac ID required.

I don’t think so. I think that would be considered coercive, since the person would be unable to live a normal life because of your belief that they owe you an action that goes against their own belief in what is best for their health

No, not her individual belief. Societys belief. The authorities belief.

It is completely normal for society to expect citizens to work together for the common good. It is completely normal to make laws that require you to do things you may not want to do, or to stop you doing things you do want to do. That is what happens when you live in a society. That's how it works. Stop pretending that this is something new or unusual!

It is completely normal to make laws that require you to do things you may not want to do, or to stop you doing things you do want to do. That is what happens when you live in a society. That's how it works. Stop pretending that this is something new or unusual!

Well it’s a thin line isn’t it. It a law is passed should every one follow and keep quiet. Depends what the law is. I’m sure people in North Korea no all about following the laws that get imposed.

Thankfully we don’t live in a authoritarian society. It’s democratic and the U.K. has mostly been a place were people have a say. Just because you think people should be forced to take a vaccine doesn’t make it right - same applies to the people who think people shouldn’t have it.

We live in a democratic society people have the right to choose

Many countries you had had to have compulsory vaccines for years went to Gambia 30 years ago and had to have yellow fever vaccine and cert to prove it or they'd send you on next flight back home nothing new.

If you don't want it fine but don't moan about the consiquencies

No, not her individual belief. Societys belief. The authorities belief.

Two things that don’t currently mandate what you want so 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don’t think so. I think that would be considered coercive, since the person would be unable to live a normal life because of your belief that they owe you an action that goes against their own belief in what is best for their health.

Then by the same token you are being coercive in insisting that many elderly or vulnerable people (and especially those whose own health conditions mean that they can't have the vaccine or that it won't be fully effective) should be unable to lead a normal life, because you are not prepared to take steps to reduce their risk of exposure to you.

I honestly think @AStudyinPink is just being deliberately obtuse at this point.

UrAWizHarry

I think that’s what some people tend to say when other people disagree with them.

Then by the same token you are being coercive in insisting that many elderly or vulnerable people (and especially those whose own health conditions mean that they can't have the vaccine or that it won't be fully effective) should be unable to lead a normal life, because you are not prepared to take steps to reduce their risk of exposure to you.

That isn’t coercive.

Fucking hell we’re now saying that people should have to remove their relatives from care homes to stop the risk of selfish cunts who work there knowingly giving them something which could kill them. This is fucking bonkers.

Sorry: to be more expansive... It is coercive to try to make someone do something. It isn’t coercive to refuse to do something. You don’t owe anyone else safety from illness at the expense of your own health and autonomy (however dubious your reasoning).

Your logic is like “now look what you made me do”. It’s rubbish.

LadyMayoGoodway

Bodily autonomy isn’t “fucking bonkers”. Thinking you have the right to dictate what other people should put in their bodies is “fucking bonkers”.