Forcing vaccination

[Peaceiseveryrhing]

Just read this on the Beeb

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-55718553

Personally, I think it's outrageous that employees may insist on vaccination and airlines preventing travel.

A communistic approach!

I had to have a yellow fever vax to go to Kenya/Tanzania (not sure if it was one or both) now that's a jab with some (very rare) but potentially very nasty side effects!
In Australia children have to have their vaccines to go to school.
I absolutely want those people who choose not to have the vaccine (but obviously not those who can't due to medical reasons) to not be able to go on flights etc. Otherwise the people choosing not to are putting the people who can't at risk.

@LadyMayoGoodway just because I state facts that don’t support your views, doesn’t mean that I’m “misinformed.” The covid19 vaccines do not prevent transmission. We would still have to wear masks and social distance. What’s the point?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/can-you-still-spread-covid-19-after-you-get-vaccinated-11610379107

Also, the pharmaceutical companies cannot be sued against if people report side effects and long term damage. This shows they are not confident in their creation. Pfizer have had loads of scandals, including paying off doctors and killing Nigerian children by testing vaccines without their parents’ consent. We also don’t know the effects of these vaccines on fertility. Not a risk I want to take.

I don't really see it that way. We all have choices. Employment law. Depends what current employees contracts say.

You don't need to carry on working for any Employer if you choose not to, don't like their beliefs and ethics. It all comes down to what is deemed 'reasonable'.

I can set up a company up a company tomorrow and stipulate that you need to have a/b/c to apply. If you chose not to, can't think of a silly enough example.....
If you chose not to have an AIDS test, say I don't want to / am not prepared to do that in order to apply, I just say, no problem those are our terms, thank you anyway.

@CuteBear For Pete’s sake WE DON’T KNOW THAT YET. Are you stupid?? The scientists don’t know either way....they might not stop transmission, but most of the evidence from other vaccines and the knowledge they have of this disease says they probably will prevent transmission. We just don’t have the evidence YET. Where is your evidence of the studies that show the vaccination doesn’t stop the spread??

We will know more in the coming months as there are large scale studies going on across the world looking at the effect of the vaccine on transmission. If you’re so well informed with ‘facts’ why don’t you know this?

An article from a tabloid is your evidence @CuteBear.....slow clap 😂😂.

Also, the pharmaceutical companies cannot be sued against if people report side effects and long term damage.

Where do you get that from?

@AStudyinPink

Coercing people just drives forward the anti-vax narrative (“What’s wrong with it that they have to force people” etc.).

I agree. Coercion is also unethical.

@boobot1noone is forcing there is no coercion. This is a practice that has been in place across many countries for many years. Why is it now suddenly a problem?

Also, the pharmaceutical companies cannot be sued against if people report side effects and long term damage. This shows they are not confident in their creation.

Evidence please.

Well non coersion obviously doesn't work🤷🏻 Just look at the number of dimwits here without masks. No way are they all exempt. Compare it to other countries...

If people here can't stop being selfish, they will have to be pushed into not being selfish. People can still be their special themselves if they fancy. Doesn't mean we have to tolerate them in the rest of the society, which is working on protecting their vulnerable like people who cannot vaccine.

Stay special, fine. But stay the fuck away then.

My company has already said that no employees will enter the company building if they haven't been vaccinated unless they have a documented medical exception..brilliant. you should see the silly conspiracy theorists back pedalling now they realise it might hit them in the wallet.

The infertility nonsense is the silliest of all the ridiculous scaremongering about vaccines. You have to be trying for a year before they class you as infertile and start investigations, so how has anybody that been on a trial or had the vaccine had time to be trying for a baby long enough to realise they might have infertility issues? Pathetic. There's zero evidence these or any vaccines can cause infertility, and people can't even come up with a proposed mechanism, even a bullshit one. Even if they could, it would be a drop in the ocean compared to booze and fags and pcos and all the other known causes of infertility. Truly pathetic scaremongering.

@LadyMayoGoodway you’re not very bright if you can’t search “covid 19 vaccine transmission.” Scientists don’t know if the vaccine will prevent transmission. We also don’t know the long term effects of the vaccine on fertility. I have a far higher risk of being hospitalised due to an allergic reaction than being hospitalised due to covid19.

Anyway, debates aren’t really your thing if you can’t look at opposing views. I’ve looked at reasons for and against getting the vaccine as an otherwise healthy young adult. I’ve come to my conclusions on what is best for my body. If vulnerable people want the vaccine then good for them! If they decide that’s what’s best for their body

@Deathgrip

Also, the pharmaceutical companies cannot be sued against if people report side effects and long term damage. This shows they are not confident in their creation.

Evidence please.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-pfizer-vaccine-legal-indemnity-safety-ministers-b1765124.html%3famp

What are your concerns around fertility? Why fertility?

You have totally misunderstood the facts on vaccines and how they stop transmission..of course they effing do. The only reason the government don't come out and say it is because immunity takes awhile to build up and they know that dimwits will start kicking the pavements the day after they get the first dose if they do, get covid and go around saying look, them vaccines don't work!

@SarahBellam

But why wouldn’t you want to be vaccinated? Do you want this to drag on for another few years?

Covid is no threat to the vast majority of people, and the vaccine doesn’t prevent community transmission, so there is no need for many people to have it.

Restricting access to services on the grounds of a person’s health status is a deeply troubling path to head down.

@minchinfin

My company has already said that no employees will enter the company building if they haven't been vaccinated unless they have a documented medical exception..brilliant. you should see the silly conspiracy theorists back pedalling now they realise it might hit them in the wallet.

The infertility nonsense is the silliest of all the ridiculous scaremongering about vaccines. You have to be trying for a year before they class you as infertile and start investigations, so how has anybody that been on a trial or had the vaccine had time to be trying for a baby long enough to realise they might have infertility issues? Pathetic. There's zero evidence these or any vaccines can cause infertility, and people can't even come up with a proposed mechanism, even a bullshit one. Even if they could, it would be a drop in the ocean compared to booze and fags and pcos and all the other known causes of infertility. Truly pathetic scaremongering.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

The lack of any longitudinal data is precisely why a lot of people are uncomfortable with the vaccines.

It depends is the answer - in the cited case of Pimlico plumbers for instance, they have to go into peoples homes, some who will be immunocompromised eg on chemo, very elderly, plus people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, so their employer wanting them to be vaccinated is fair enough with medical exemption for those who cannot have any version of the vaccine.

Airlines similarly need to protect their customers and crew who need to be at close quarters for hours, some of which may for medical reasons be unable to be vaccinated so the rest of us need to be vaccinated to protect them. For cruise ships it's a no brainier. You don't have to travel, it's a choice

I cannot imagine shops demanding it, restaurants etc it's unlikely but they cannot afford to be closed again and if that means barring refusers it might be worth their while

the vaccine doesn’t prevent community transmission

That is not what any scientist, doctor or government advisor has said, or believes. It is also not true and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of immunology and how vaccines work. In fairness, the government have deliberately contributed to the misunderstanding I think - for the reason I have already pointed out.

@mootymoo

It depends is the answer - in the cited case of Pimlico plumbers for instance, they have to go into peoples homes, some who will be immunocompromised eg on chemo, very elderly, plus people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, so their employer wanting them to be vaccinated is fair enough with medical exemption for those who cannot have any version of the vaccine.

Airlines similarly need to protect their customers and crew who need to be at close quarters for hours, some of which may for medical reasons be unable to be vaccinated so the rest of us need to be vaccinated to protect them. For cruise ships it's a no brainier. You don't have to travel, it's a choice

I cannot imagine shops demanding it, restaurants etc it's unlikely but they cannot afford to be closed again and if that means barring refusers it might be worth their while

Vaccination only prevents serious illness in the vaccinated individual though.

It won’t prevent them catching and passing the virus on.

Pimlico Plumbers are just showing their utter ignorance by pursuing this policy.

Deathgrip, it has been widely known for months that pharma cannot be sued about covid vaccinations.
Google if you want to know more info about it. It was widely reported at the time that decision was made[about 4 months ago??]

And a note to me to go on the threads more, that have lots of scientific links.

@minchinfin

the vaccine doesn’t prevent community transmission

That is not what any scientist, doctor or government advisor has said, or believes. It is also not true and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of immunology and how vaccines work. In fairness, the government have deliberately contributed to the misunderstanding I think - for the reason I have already pointed out.

This is the current consensus in the scientific community.

None of the vaccines give sterilising immunity.

No, it's not.

@minchinfin

No, it's not.

Show me a single study that confirms that any of the vaccines offer sterilising immunity.

Show me a single study that shows covid vaccines won't create herd immunity.

It’s not up to science to prove a negative.