What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

herecomesthsun

But reinfection is a tiny tiny percentage.
We think we all had it in December 2019 and my children have since worked closely with people who have all gone down with Covid except them.
Last December one said they were hugging and kissing a friend who later that day started to feel unwell and was then diagnosed with Covid. Everyone in the group was told to go home and isolate whilst they waited for the test results. Everyone in the group had Covid except my daughter and her friend who had Covid 2 months before.
This has happened on at least 3 occasions, including last week where she once again has had to cancel the odd days of work to self isolate when there isn’t anything wrong with her.

I do think that once you have had it the chances of getting it again are very remote.
Maybe for health care workers who are in close contact with many patients the chances of reinfection rises but not for a lot of the general public.

@Floppywin

Definitely different messages coming from Macron and UK gov on role vaccination will play, seems to be saying won't improve numbers in ICU etc whereas UK are saying vaccination is way out - and transmission rates will reduce. Very different presentation of situations, however Macron's psuedo comment on a vaccine makes me doubt anything he says on how to deal with the pandemic.

www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/No-new-Covid-rules-yet-as-Macron-aims-to-keep-France-open-and-vaccinate-everyone-by-summer
quote from article below:
"He said: “Our vaccination strategy is not what will allow us to avoid confinement in the short term, or not.”

The President said that the vaccination campaign would not be enough to "allow us to respond to the pressure in hospitals and in intensive care units".

This is contrary to the claims made recently by UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock.

Mr Hancock has hailed a study showing that the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine may be reducing the spread of Covid-19 as “absolutely superb”, and “really encouraging”

What I take from that is he is planning to vaccinate the working age people. The under 65s. The ICU age filling age range. So 40 to 65?

The EU need to question who the these AZ not suitable for over 65s are going to vaccinate. If health workers or carers fair enough. If health 45 year olds. Then not right. The vaccine should only go to countries that want to protect their vulnerable.

EU citizens and media need to start asking questions now. Especially if in a country that is saying no AZ for over 65s

Macron is denying the science. Dangerous and sly politics.

Dangerous because he is giving people more reason to mistrust the AZ vaccine. Totally unethical seeing as the AZ vaccine is a significant part of the COVAX programme. Also, clearly younger people will now be vaccinated before older people. More people will die.

Sly because by claiming vaccinations are not the way out of this and ignoring the scientific fact that the AZ vaccine is slowing transmission, he is giving the EU citizens reason to believe that a fast vaccination program isn't really that important. EU citizens are not going to fall for this are they?

article above that one I linked to said Macron plans to vaccinate healthcare workers and CEV with AZ vaccine over Feb etc.

Previously it was elderly and healthcare workers at same time, same as in UK.

I should imagine that will ultimately leave a lot of AZ to be used so I hope it would be 65 downwards, if not they'd have difficult questions to answer.

Only last week they would have given to the over 65s, then European press and leaders have put in people's minds that the vaccine isn't reliable despite the EU approving it for older adults.

This change coincided when orders are down across the board from all vaccine suppliers, not just AZ.

I know some of the Far East countries have different demographics and are able to vaccinate younger first policy. However, most EU countries have elderly populations which are the main ones severely affected by the virus.

I’m sorry I started this thread now as I was genuinely just after opinions from the other side of the channel. I’ve had a few, and thanks for those, but an awful lot more are just here for the squabble. How disappointing.

Yes I was hoping to see more opinions from EU citizens, especially from the smaller countries. I think it shows that most MNers are either British or Irish (or occasionally American).

I believe by the end of this pandemic most eu countries be broadly the same deaths as UK so the whole narrative of uk is the worst, plague Island?
We wreckless, the new British virus and the way uk decided vaccines is harming Europe is becoming a bit tiresome.
Looking back in time we all made mistakes with borders maybe a key factor.
Yes we lost lot Elderly in care homes but so did eu countries remember a story about abandoned carehome in Spain 1st wave.
Uk made massive mistakes with holidays, timings lockdown and spread of virus through education.
PPE made us all look bad.
Once again macron has shut borders to brits so had Germany like we wreckless plague monkey's.
Merkel blaming the British virus for Germany recent woes not sure she called their 1st wave the Chinese virus.
Yes due to 50% worlds genomes sequencing we identified it here.
Doesn't mean we created it or it started here some scientists according dr Campbell not seen elsewhere said similar to strain found in Italy.
Uk had no patient zero it came in from various countries 1200 people initially.
Some Icelandic scientists traced the source of where each strain came from.
New varients is nothing new I remember getting cross in summer because new Spanish farmers varient lots uk tourists brought back.
Denmark quick to identify mink strain and acted swiftly but shocked me how many mink farms across Europe including 2 in ireland and mink to Human transmission in Spain and Lithuania yet was no mass cull.

I remember in states 1st wave they said 2 strains east coast new York strain deadly from Europe and west coast milder strain.
Since then usa identified Houston texts strain and more recent californian strain.
They also have new uk strain and Brazilian.

I did wonder how bad is covid within Europe right now.
Are the riots and protest in Netherlands and other countries against restriction or lack of control over vaccines.
I know Portugal has been quite bad .
That France trying avoid another lockdown.
The main issue is time would eu elderly rather a vaccine that say might only be 70s % effective than nothing at all.
They say the uk has past its peak this current wave.
Has Europe? If vaccines are delayed the only alternative is strict restrictions for long time yet.
Be interesting see what phizer and moderna can deliver and if they use this export ban.
Will they mostly use 40million az doses for healthcare workers.
Are they vaccinating other keyworkers.
Is it set by EU or member states the order of vaccine groups?

It seems 9million extra az coming from India.

@3asAbird - great post, nails lots of issues and unknowns the world is facing. Very complex and interconnected issues.

Was like reading a trailer for a great new series coming to Netflix - except it's real world stuff.

I too would like to know if the elderly in EU zone would rather have the AZ vaccine with reduced (so politicians have decided) efficacy - although EU scientists disagree and say it is highly unlikely to be ineffective in older adults.

Or would the elderly rather continue to take the risk of no vaccine whilst younger people are vaccinated, particularly as the figures are promising with regards to reduction of transmission.

If their politicians aren't speaking up for the elderly in those countries, who is?

Is that true that the EU's extra 9 million doses are coming from India? I'd like to know which countries are getting their orders pushed back to accommodate them - it seems very wrong.

Well I suppose where I am people do think the politicians are speaking up for the elderly. By scrutinising the data and making the best decision for this population. It won’t necessarily be the same decision as in the U.K. of course. They have a proven record of protecting the elderly and those sick with other diseases too - hospitals are functioning as normal without disruption to treatment and in addition the number deaths from Covid have been relatively low. This is possible because the number of infections is low and also hospitalisations, thereby protecting the elderly. There is no scramble for vaccines at the moment as, as we understand, the current restrictions will be eased in spring around April. There is forecast to be the major delivery of vaccine in March and April and they will be distributed very quickly and because the infection rate is very low we will undo lockdown relatively quickly, maybe, just maybe, earlier than the U.K.. of course this is all unknown and if there is further more significant delay people may become fractious. Either way, the health and economic impact has been, by European standards, fortunately limited. People seem thoroughly fed up of lockdown needless to say.

I'm German, I was completely opposed to brexit and still am, mainly becaaue I think anglo-saxon business culture and contract law is beneficial to all parties, and I would rather improve the EU with our knowledge and influence than have it be a weaker force that is still stronger than us, and which is now vehemently opposed to us.

By us I mean the UK as it's where I now live.

Tatutata I think exactly the same

@Baileysforchristmas I guess will see what happens once July comes around. The elderly/vulnerable I know and healthcare workers I know have got it here already.

But I’m Brit in Eu

It seems Ireland decided not to use az on its elderly they prefer to wait for phizer and moderna.

m.independent.ie/news/moderna-and-pfizer-vaccines-are-preferential-to-oxford-astrazeneca-jab-for-over-65s-says-hse-40047453.html?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=webpush&utm_campaign=Moderna+and+Pfizer+vaccines+are+%E2%80%98preferential%E2%80%99+to+Oxford+AstraZeneca+jab+for+over+65s+says+HSE+%28xtremepush+%2352197476%29&utm_term=notification+%23581807247_1860526464&utm_content=A

@Tatutata who is "vehemently opposed"? Germany or UK?

If you mean UK, then I don't agree with that - away from headlines about one issue or another UK are not vehemently opposed to any EU country.

We have easier relations with Germany than France I'd say, personally, I've respected more German leaders over French leaders any day of the week (not impressed with their recent gift to the anti vax brigade on AZ).

There is certainly a lot of opposition to the EU which led to Brexit and I really hope that people of the EU can reform and withdraw some of its powers before they lose them altogether; find a different way forward with a trading bloc that doesn't look to remove democratic decisions.

Love to lots about France and the people - doesn't extend to their politicians who often seem petulant and childish.

The vaccine strategy has not changed in France. Health care workers and then age 75+. Some of my friends aged 75+ have now had both injections. We 65+ were due to start mid-February, but I think the timescale is more likely to be the beginning of March now. Not ideal but I have seen nothing to suggest that we will be abandoned for younger working people. There is still a lot of vaccine sceptism about and the health authorities will not give the AZ vaccine to over 65s without more evidence.
Our hospitals are not overwhelmed, other treatments are continuing and pressure on intensive care in our region is around 45%.
I think you need to understand the bigger picture in order to comment.

@Barababam obviously none of the countries I linked earlier? The UK has the highest population vaccinated in the EU so far and we haven’t vaccinated all our vulnerable yet.

@Floppywin I don't mean the UK is opposed to the EU. I mean the EU is taking every opportunity to ridicule the UK. They more or less have to. Because leaving the EU has to be seen to be very detrimental to the exiting country, otherwise the whole thing falls apart. The thing that this whole fiasco has shown up, other than vdL being a very poor leader, is that the EU does not use its power well, and has quite poor mechanisms for getting things done quickly. But what is beneficial is free trade and uniform manufacturing standards. That benefits consumers and I worry about the effect on lots of UK small businesses that has EU customers . All their EU export business will dry up becauasd make them uncompetitive, and they may not be able to afford whatever conditions are attached to setting up an EU subsidiary. Anyway back to the point of the thread, there is now a raft of German media in particular who think the commission totally fucked up. Macron is either trying to save face for vdL (secret lovers??) or he wants to make anything invented in Britain seem unreliable, to improve future uptake of a vaccine invented in the EU. Germans take a mostly pragmatic and balanced view of the UK. Apart from my sister, who keeps asking us whether people are dying in the street, thinks we're all cowboys and wants me to come back to Germany so that I'll be safe from all these nasty capitalists 🙄

I'm.in an EU country. We are staggered that the UK are publishing vaccinated people but they have only vaccinated with one jab. This can lead to mutations etc.

They seem to have made these headlines only in the UK papers. (Some might think it's a PR campaign from Boris ;)

The EU made a statement some time ago to say they would wait for additional safety trials before they rolled it out. They have done that and are now rolling out. Yes not as many as the UK have but don't here anyone here criticising.

The UK needed to get them in early in case of supply issues post brexit and the high death rate in the UK

The EU is not perfect but I'm glad they have done the safety checks here

@Baileysforchristmas I don’t think all of them are vaccinated. I said the ones I know are.

You know, I basically couldn't give a fuck....

I'm amazed that a vaccine has been developed in record time and I'll get mine when the time comes.

What I DO care about is this bullshit one-upmanship being whipped up into a frenzy by the media.

At a time when the world should be coming together to collectively beat this virus, it's like watching a squabble in the playground.

Nobody has a clue what this virus is doing from day-to-day (new variants etc.) and everybody is basically feeling their way through the dark. We are living and learning so to speak. Not one person on this planet is the all-knowing one in these times.

Living in the EU I find it incredibly sad that a % of the UK has voted for a system that is forcing businesses to have to relocate to the EU in order to be able to trade. Oh the irony!

The EU is not perfect but I'm glad they have done the safety checks here

What extra safety checks do you mean?

Out of all the elements of MRHA decision safety of vaccine hasn’t been a concern really.

It’s more that they are using immune response from over 65 to make up for low data. I’m fine with that approach.

I'm.in an EU country. We are staggered that the UK are publishing vaccinated people but they have only vaccinated with one jab. This can lead to mutations etc.

"Mutations. etc" eh? Can you elaborate on the 'etc' and while you're at it, let us know how all the 'staggered' folk in your unnamed country think they know better than the MHRA, one of the most highly regarded groups of its type in the world.

The EU made a statement some time ago to say they would wait for additional safety trials before they rolled it out. They have done that and are now rolling out.

Which 'safety trials'?

Again, are you saying the MHRA authorised a vaccine which was unsafe and/or ineffective?

Yes not as many as the UK have but don't here anyone here criticising.

Well, maybe people in your country should be a bit more critical then because the EU's vaccine roll-out has been a shambles. They had to pause vaccinations in France and Spain last week due to lack of supply.

Which country are you in?

@tatutata that did make me smile at UVDL and Macron secret lovers 😂 I think the Germans see it for what it is, a holy fuck up. I think at the end of the day we all want the same thing, to carry on with our lives as safely as we possibly can. I wish every European the best and hopefully i’ll able to visit beautiful Europe again soon.