What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

Sorry, ignore the % signs, it is vaccines per 100 people.

I haven't read the full thread (and reading the last few responses maybe I shouldn't). I'm Dutch and live in the Netherlands. I'm still pro EU, simply because although it has it's faults, it is the way forward for us. We need more unity in Europe, both political and economically.

I do think that the vaccines could have been handled better. I was pretty pissed off when we/they said that the UK should hand in vaccines. I get that there is dissapointment in AstraZeneca's delivery but you can't just take that out on another customer (which the UK is, just one of the other customers).

@CaveMum

that's very interesting. And unfortunate for the French. I know the EU have invested heavily in Curevac which is German but that still many months away. EU citizens have every right to be very cross IMO.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Sorry, ignore the % signs, it is vaccines per 100 people.

So.... percent?

@Avondklok - no the EU aren't waiting on more evidence, they've said approved to use on all adults including older adults - EU don't say wise to wait - see EU doc attached.

"given that an immune response is seen in this age group and based on experience with other vaccines; as there is reliable information on safety in this population, EMA’s scientific experts considered that the vaccine can be used in older adults. More information is expected from ongoing studies, which include a higher proportion of elderly participants."

www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-recommends-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-authorisation-eu

By the way you've heard of auto correct and small phones and spelling mistakes.... doh!....it's a forum - if you want to correct mistakes then I've handed a much bigger one to you:
the EU have not said don't vaccinate the over 65 - some politicians like Macron (now an immunologist and scientific data expert) have decided it.

It is a political decision not a scientific decision. The EU have approved for use in all adults and older adults too as basically they're saying it would be daft on all the evidence to assume it wouldn't work (if you read the attached).

@rorosemary - don't worry read the rest of the thread - it's spurious comments - and trying to deflect from the appalling decisions by the EU on this issue. Been discussing facts -sounds like you've got your head screwed on about the facts.

I voted leave for change of direction over the next few decades away from closer union. I love all the countries that make up Europe and the people, but there are some politicians that I do not trust - Macron being one - not giving AZ vaccine to the over 55!s ridiculous decision and feeding into scaremongering with talk of psuedo effective.

Dangerous games. No the thread is fine, don't worry but some will wish to take one comment by one poster out of context - it would be deleted if it was so terrible...just out of context.

@TheGravelRoad possibly not, depending on how many jabs some people have had!

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@TheGravelRoad possibly not, depending on how many jabs some people have had![/quote]
Right, makes sense. Strange metric then. Surely what everyone wants to know is percentage of people vaccinated!

Huh? @Baileysforchristmas. What makes you think that there’s no timeline for when over 65s in Europe will be vaccinated? Who’s vaccinated when is decided by the individual countries. There’s definitely a time plan in the two countries I’m aware of (home country and country I live in).

Strange metric then. Surely what everyone wants to know is percentage of people vaccinated! Which is what I thought, until I looked again!

I am guessing that the stats come from proper government/science data and are collated / used for some other purpose (like ensuring the right number of doses are ordered in total, so they'd need 200 for every 100 people - 300 if they are going to give a 12 month booster). Sometimes odd statistics cannot be translated into simple ones and look weird!

@Barababam when will that be? The UK are on track for the middle of March, all adults over 18 will be vaccinated twice by August, Germany are on track for Jan 2024

www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccination-live-data-tracker/

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/france-astrazeneca-virus-vaccine-people-65-75641795

all countries have a plan for elderly - however, EU region's planning is adapting dramatically over last few days as shortfall on their "planning" - Moderna order also down etc.

The attached says that the AZ doses in France will initially go to healthcare and CEV - but everyone will be offered it by the summer. It is a political decision to move these goalposts entirely. Italy it is under 55s and Poland under 60s so there will be a lot of shuffling around of people expecting a vaccine in the elderly population.

I think world over agrees first role out should be elderly and healthcare professionals. European countries are unilaterally deciding to ignore EU approval for older adults.

That's fine and their decision but call it out for what it is - vaccine orders messed up so they are re-thinking and the planned roll out can't be done - don't react by casting doubt on a vaccine during a pandemic...

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@Barababam when will that be? The UK are on track for the middle of March, all adults over 18 will be vaccinated twice by August, Germany are on track for Jan 2024

www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccination-live-data-tracker/[/quote]
Those graphs are made assuming the number if vaccines given per day STAYS THE SAME.

Does anyone really believe this will be the case?

That sort of statements only serves to highlight ‘Look how great we are’ and ‘Look how crap they are’
If this makes you feel better, why not. But I hope no one actually believes this is the case.
1- because very clearly vaccinations rates will change very quickly (just like they have for the U.K. in the last month or so)
2- because having the highest death toll per million is not a sign of being great at all...
Personally I’d rather have had a lower death rate and slower vaccination rates....

Personally I’d rather have had a lower death rate and slower vaccination rates....

🙄 Great for you.

We didn’t exactly choose it.

www.statista.com/statistics/1111779/coronavirus-death-rate-europe-by-country/

death rates by country for Europe as of 24 Jan 2021 -

Italy aren't far behind but the AZ vaccines are going to under 55s. You might be happy to wait and go slow, but other countries and their older populations might have differing opinion.

Belgium and Slovenia above us too on the schedule attached and lots of other countries in Europe have very high death rates too.

And this is what the EU think of the UK

www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/brexit-britain-eu-uk-trade-smells-like-teen-spirit/amp/

I think the only way we would have had lower death rates would have been to not go into any sort of lockdown. Just relied on social distancing and masks and maybe not going into someone else’s home.
It would have been horrendous initially and 1000s more would have died but then I think it would have tailed off. Maybe a blip over the winter period but then tailed off again.
We might have had a massive death rate initially but then we wouldn’t be seeing the huge numbers now and overall I think we would have saved tens of thousands of people

Personally I’d rather have had a lower death rate and slower vaccination rates....

That statementmakes no sense at all!!!!
If you have slow vaccination you will end up with higher death rate. Which is why we are finding the EU handling of the vaccine buying shocking. Also the whole reason for this thread. What on earth do you think people are saying???

@ParadiseIsland yes it is on numbers staying the same but we are on target, the EU are 10 weeks behind, I don’t see how they can catch up at the moment

@Bythemillpond

I think the only way we would have had lower death rates would have been to not go into any sort of lockdown. Just relied on social distancing and masks and maybe not going into someone else’s home. It would have been horrendous initially and 1000s more would have died but then I think it would have tailed off. Maybe a blip over the winter period but then tailed off again. We might have had a massive death rate initially but then we wouldn’t be seeing the huge numbers now and overall I think we would have saved tens of thousands of people

I often weigh this up. Especially with the new information that comes out about the virus.

The older mutations would have been to slow I think to achieve this effectively. The new faster transmission variants we have now would probably do the job. I actually think the how pandemic may burn itself out pretty quickly now. Between the vaccinations and natural immunity being so high in badly hit areas

Ultimately though we chose the right discussion. To sit back and do little as elderly and vulnerable die I for one couldn't watch

@Baileysforchristmas That’s assuming rates remain the same . Why would that be relevant to anything? Obviously that’s not the plan. The country I’m in is saying all over 18 who want to be will be finished with vaccinations Before July .

@Bythemillpond

I think the only way we would have had lower death rates would have been to not go into any sort of lockdown. Just relied on social distancing and masks and maybe not going into someone else’s home. It would have been horrendous initially and 1000s more would have died but then I think it would have tailed off. Maybe a blip over the winter period but then tailed off again. We might have had a massive death rate initially but then we wouldn’t be seeing the huge numbers now and overall I think we would have saved tens of thousands of people

This is just nonsense though. We can get re-infected, so far more people would have died initially, and then people would just have kept on dying.

Especially as health services would have been completely overwhelmed.

Also, the economy would have been even more hit by the devastation in society.

It would have been terrible.

Definitely different messages coming from Macron and UK gov on role vaccination will play, seems to be saying won't improve numbers in ICU etc whereas UK are saying vaccination is way out - and transmission rates will reduce. Very different presentation of situations, however Macron's psuedo comment on a vaccine makes me doubt anything he says on how to deal with the pandemic.

www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/No-new-Covid-rules-yet-as-Macron-aims-to-keep-France-open-and-vaccinate-everyone-by-summer
quote from article below:
"He said: “Our vaccination strategy is not what will allow us to avoid confinement in the short term, or not.”

The President said that the vaccination campaign would not be enough to "allow us to respond to the pressure in hospitals and in intensive care units".

This is contrary to the claims made recently by UK Health Secretary Matt Hancock.

Mr Hancock has hailed a study showing that the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine may be reducing the spread of Covid-19 as “absolutely superb”, and “really encouraging”

@Barababam but where is that supply coming from? Only 40 mil from AZ for under 60, all the other suppliers are cutting orders to the EU, Germany are saying it will take 10 weeks to catch up. The other option is the Russia and China vaccine but that needs approving and how many can they supply before summer?

That’s why the EU are panicking, they are in serious short of supply for the next 10 weeks.