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What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

999 replies

Frazzled2207 · 30/01/2021 10:10

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

OP posts:
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PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 20:35

@Waspnest

Why can’t you understand why EU people are a bit angry?

I don't blame them for being angry, but it should be with EU Commission for fucking up vaccine procurement for obviously not being up to the job, not AZ or the British government.

They fucked up nothing, AZ is fucking up delivery. In what world is ordering 80million, but the company announces oh, we’re only going to send you 23 million, meet the “best effort” clause when simultaneously the same company is sending U.K. more than what they originally ordered!
PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 20:38

@DamnUserName21

between EU and AZ, not the EU and UK

Agree, sort of. It depends how or whether the U.K. government in ordering their “increase in supplies” was complicit and knew that this would result in AZ decreasing supplies to EU....because that’s what happened.

Ultimately, I feel AZ need to clarify what the hell is going on.

Yes, I think AZ has a lot to answer for.

DamnUserName21 · 31/01/2021 20:39

[quote Landarmygirls]**@DamnUserName21* As for the UK seeing Ireland as a 'clueless stupid idiot' it's a real shame some Irish feel we think that way. I'd argue it's the Commission that feels that way rather than the UK govt but hey ho.*

Maybe you should read the below all of which appeared on this thread alone

the Irish can lie through their teeth that they're happy and it was just a mistake, but no-one believes them. Just bit sad and makes them look foolish.

My Mum is in Ireland and I would very much like her to be vaccinated ASAP. Perhaps if your government could have procured its own vaccine it would have been a lot quicker. You had the highest rate in world a week or so ago (although much lower pop density than here so easier to get under control).

Just because you can't stand up to them, doesn't mean you're not being treated like shit though. You are nothing to them.

I'm not saying you would be better off without them. But you can allow yourself a moment of anger or even irritation at the people who are were prepared to fuck you over without a second thought the day before yesterday.

You don't need to blindly defend everything they do.

I was quite shocked but the Irish really do seem to be very pro EU and careful not to criticise them.

Yeah, but like the abused partner stood there with a black eye saying they walked into the door, no-one really believes them - blank behind the eyes.

I saw that and agree they really want to believe it, but you can almost see them flinch that they might say the wrong thing and don't want to be punished.

It is also the case that Ireland wanted to bring in Astra Zenaca vaccines to have them ready to roll out as soon as they were, approved but Brussels denied permission and said no. Increasingly Ireland is looking like the lackey of Brussels

Ireland is cravenly pro-EU to the point where they are now trying to gloss over the international humiliation of not being consulted by the EU before it reneged on the NI protocol.

Why did the Irish Times devote an editorial this week to attacking Boris Johnson? Why the obsession with the British? Why not hold your own government to account? It's baffling.

Yes "gloss over" is the wording I couldn't find! He almost looked uncomfortable when it was pointed out numerous times that A16 was a horrid move and threatened them.
The reply was simply "but they didn't" Felt very much like someone trying to argue it didn't matter that they held a gun at your head - because they didn't actually shoot and therefore your weren't harmed.[/quote]
@Landarmygirls,

It's a POV. I'd take it with a pinch of salt. Mumsnet really isn't representative of real life.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/01/2021 20:40

Huh? More than the UK ordered?

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 20:40

@Waspnest

Yes, but while NI was in dark when EU threatened A16, the ROI was in dark when Boris threatened A16. So it’s pretty even.

But the UK aren't in the EU. Remember neither the RoI nor NI were told about the recent threat in advance. You'd think the EU would have had the class to tell one of it's members (that would be hugely affected) what it was doing.

I know. I was just reminding you that ROI is part of Ireland because you said Ireland was left in dark. I agreed. Then you said that at least Boris didn’t leave Ireland in dark because the “DUP knew”. NI isn’t all of Ireland.
DamnUserName21 · 31/01/2021 20:45

@Wildswim

But Boris can do the same, income A16 without an Act of Parliament can he not? So what is big difference between 1 elected man and 1 elected commission of several men and women with same executive powers?

The difference is that Boris could be voted out at the next election. How can EU citizens get rid of VdL? Or any of the Commission bigwigs?

The Commission wanted to impose a border without consulting the member country it would affect. Such a democratic institution.
Clavinova · 31/01/2021 20:46

PlanDeRaccordement
Increase supplies? How? Are EU ordered vaccines being diverted to the U.K. “increase supplies” ramp up of vaccine doses? Fair question.

Answers here? The article in your link is dated 7 January 2020.

6 January 2020;

Oxford Biomedica, which is producing the largest quantity, is working 24/7 shifts and its staff were at work over Christmas and the New Year to get supplies moving. It said it is on target to deliver according to its contract with AstraZeneca, which is for “tens of millions” of doses. ...

Under the emergency authorisation granted by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Authority (MHRA) in late December, each batch must be quality-approved by the National Institute for Biological Standards and Control (NIBSC).

This is where the delays lie, according to the government.

NIBSC has scaled up its capacity to ensure that multiple batches can be tested simultaneously, and that this can be done as quickly as possible, without compromising quality and safety,” it said.

The DHSC said vaccine testing can usually take up to 20 days, but it is seeking to bring that down to five days.

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/06/what-obstacles-stand-in-the-way-of-uks-covid-vaccine-rollout

MessAllOver · 31/01/2021 20:49

Both sides have played their part in sowing division.

The anti-EU press in the UK have a lot to answer for. I suspect people in this country are much more wound up about the vaccine issue than people are in EU countries... lots of hyperbole about "stealing" vaccines. It is a British trait to think that the world revolves around this island and everyone else cares much more about what is happening here than they actually do. On the other hand, the UK government has, amazingly, been quite restrained on this topic.

The EU Commission are behaving very badly because they have egg on their face and it's an EU trait to be unable to accept blame and to think any problems that one faces must be someone else's fault. However, it must be said that the EU was handicapped in coordinating vaccines from the start by its structural inability to make speedy decisions. Indeed, no one even seemed to realise that speed and volume, as opposed to value for money and member state consensus, were the really important things.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/01/2021 20:51

No no. Go back. Extra doses.

You said Plan the the UK had received more than it had ordered...

DamnUserName21 · 31/01/2021 20:51

Agree, sort of. It depends how or whether the U.K. government in ordering their “increase in supplies” was complicit and knew that this would result in AZ decreasing supplies to EU....because that’s what happened.

I suppose that depends on 'increase in supplies.' If AZ are honouring its supply and delivery commitment to the UK then there are no increases. I find it hard to believe that AZ gave the EU the same delivery timelines as the UK.
But only AZ can clarify the situation.

DamnUserName21 · 31/01/2021 20:54

@MessAllOver

Both sides have played their part in sowing division.

The anti-EU press in the UK have a lot to answer for. I suspect people in this country are much more wound up about the vaccine issue than people are in EU countries... lots of hyperbole about "stealing" vaccines. It is a British trait to think that the world revolves around this island and everyone else cares much more about what is happening here than they actually do. On the other hand, the UK government has, amazingly, been quite restrained on this topic.

The EU Commission are behaving very badly because they have egg on their face and it's an EU trait to be unable to accept blame and to think any problems that one faces must be someone else's fault. However, it must be said that the EU was handicapped in coordinating vaccines from the start by its structural inability to make speedy decisions. Indeed, no one even seemed to realise that speed and volume, as opposed to value for money and member state consensus, were the really important things.

Fair post.

Really good article here by US based Politico.

www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 20:57

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Huh? More than the UK ordered?
This video sums up (in English) how the vaccine row was being reported here in France two days ago. Please watch if you have spare moments.

www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/the-world-this-week/20210129-eu-astrazeneca-vaccine-row-students-mental-health-metooincest-egypt

DamnUserName21 · 31/01/2021 20:57

*Sorry, not US based. Brussels-based.

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 21:00

@CuriousaboutSamphire

No no. Go back. Extra doses.

You said Plan the the UK had received more than it had ordered...

Yes. U.K. asked for delivery schedule to be increased to 2m doses per week. So obviously, the original contract in May must have had delivery schedule of less than 2m/ week.

Total number doses is the same. That is not increase I’m taking about. Talking about increase by front loading.

EU contract signed in August with delivery schedule. Please watch video I posted so you see other point of view.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/01/2021 21:02

Do you have a time stamp for the bit when someone says the UK has received more vaccine than was ordered/ paid for?

It's 40 minutes long...

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/01/2021 21:03

Sorry Plan I mean.to start that with thank you 😁

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 21:03

@Wildswim
The difference is that Boris could be voted out at the next election. How can EU citizens get rid of VdL? Or any of the Commission bigwigs?

By losing the next election. Same as Boris. Actually Boris wasn’t democratically elected was he? Only Conservative Party could vote, not all U.K. voters......

Avondklok · 31/01/2021 21:03

Too much hyperbole - stealing vaccines, ripping up the GFA etc, neither of which are remotely true. The British press are encouraging this. News in Belgium tonight is that AZ will provide another 9 mio,vaccines shortly.

Waspnest · 31/01/2021 21:05

They fucked up nothing, AZ is fucking up delivery.

I give up. If you really believe that, there is no point in arguing with you.

Porseb · 31/01/2021 21:07

@Wildswim

It was fair game for everyone to discuss UK relationship for past 5-6 years with arguments both sides and be told we were stupid to leave

Indeed. The Irish were very interested in Brexit - for good reason of course - and didn't hold back on attacking UK's stupidity and small-mindedness.

The Irish were very interested in Brexit because of the problems it would cause on the island of Ireland where there had been peace and no border as part of the GF Agreement.

NI voted to remain.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/01/2021 21:07

I'm about 10 minutes in and am hearing lots of oh dear, this isn't what we expected. Parts of France have their programme in hold.

Which is pretty much what was being said here a month or so ago.

It could be a UK transmission.... you wouldn't hear anything different. Unless it changes...

PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 21:08

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Do you have a time stamp for the bit when someone says the UK has received more vaccine than was ordered/ paid for?

It's 40 minutes long...

Don’t worry the first part of video is all about the vaccine. The rest is the other subjects like student mental health. You don’t need to see all forty minutes. :)
PlanDeRaccordement · 31/01/2021 21:09

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I'm about 10 minutes in and am hearing lots of oh dear, this isn't what we expected. Parts of France have their programme in hold.

Which is pretty much what was being said here a month or so ago.

It could be a UK transmission.... you wouldn't hear anything different. Unless it changes...

Did you miss at 1 minute 20 seconds where he is saying that AZ gave away to the UK the vaccines the EU had ordered? And that the export action is to try and claw back at least those doses that were made in the EU.
3asAbird · 31/01/2021 21:10

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/06/what-obstacles-stand-in-the-way-of-uks-covid-vaccine-rollout

Confused a bit how this article talks about uk production and delays.
Eu orders was meant to come from 2 European factories.
Uk ordered 100million in total
Eu orders 300 million 3months later

The article suggests by mid Feb uk would have managed 13.5k vaccinations I don't know if this is just az or phizer combined.

Europe through they have 1st batch of order 80 million by end quarter 1.
Last week thought they told they can only have initial 8million whilst accusing az sending 4million to uk.
Now they say they will get 40million half of what they expected within the next month or 2.
So az say they can deliver 40 million as well as whatever uk is expecting.
I thought the European factories had poor output and teething issues and the Belgians confirmed that when they raided az Belgian factory on tue.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 31/01/2021 21:12

Oh! And then Big Pharma dictating, profits etc.

That wouldn't be said here as we are all too well aware that AZ is not making a profit and, when we did have delays we were told they were normal at this stage in developing mass manufacture and supply would be 'lumpy' for a while.

I don't think I've seen a Big Pharma discussion here. Might that reflect the choices made when supporting development and pre ordering?