What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

Yes, but while NI was in dark when EU threatened A16, the ROI was in dark when Boris threatened A16. So it’s pretty even.

But the UK aren't in the EU. Remember neither the RoI nor NI were told about the recent threat in advance. You'd think the EU would have had the class to tell one of it's members (that would be hugely affected) what it was doing.

@HelloMissus

Boris is a fucking eejit. He said he’d use A16 if he needed to. Like politicians threaten their nuclear option. Utter stupidly and willy waving.

But the EU put matters in place. Without discussion.
That’s like getting the nuclear codes.

But they didn't actually invoke it.

plan of course the EU don’t have to consult the ROI about tearing up the Good Friday Agreemebt after years of civil conflict.
But you think it might be a frigging good idea.

They weren't ripping up,the GFA. This was meant to be a short term measure to cover reporting of vaccine exports only. See Boris for the former.

@CuriousaboutSamphire not 100% comittal - but that EU should now take a place in a queue, not previously mentioned, he had never heard of.
Also, while the courts could wrangle it, the better solution was probably political.

These contracts were written when there were so many unknowns, there is lots of 'will' and 'best endeavour', (which is also defined).

Avon they announced it. Without even speaking to ROI. They didn’t pick up the phone to discuss it with the TS. The Good Friday Agreement wasn’t even worth a text!
And the only reason they didn’t invoke is because ROI went in hard. Ditto U.K.

I understand that is what the commission does/ does not have to do.

My point is that there was a difference in the execution and intent of the announcement made.

@Aloethere

Quite frankly I find it insulting that the U.K. are acting like Ireland is a clueless stupid idiot who has no thoughts of our own but then it’s not surprising that this insulting attitude is coming from posters in the U.K. there is form for it after all. I’m done now with this thread so continue insulting Ireland after I’m gone I couldn’t care less!

I wouldn't worry about it. There is a real defensiveness about a lot of those posts. Trying to drag Ireland down because they used to feel better than us but now a lot of the world looks at the UK like . They are grasping onto this vaccine thing because they have done so poorly not just with Covid to date but with pretty much everything in recent years.

I don't see any dragging Ireland down. I see many people angry on Ireland's behalf that A16 was threatened or invoked over a contractual dispute between EU and AZ.

I didn't realise ROI decided not to have a 2 island approach with Uk or that they wanted to procure some of their own but the EU said no until today.

I was chatting to my Irish friend today and she is really angry about it. I don't have an opinion either way on how Irish should feel as that obviously isn't my place. But I can have an opinion about how I'd feel if I was in that situation.

The fact that technically the EU commission could impose a hard border on the island of Ireland without consulting anyone about it shows up everything that is wrong with the EU.

It's far too powerful, it's unelected and unaccountable.

Avondick who in the UK has said that? Media?

Who in the EU has said similar? Ministers...

But the EU put matters in place. Without discussion.
That’s like getting the nuclear codes.

Yes. I'm not sure Boris put anything in writing whereas the EU apparently did (and then swiftly retracted it) which shows real intent.

The Good Friday Agreement wasn’t even worth a text!

I know, the hypocrisy and the arrogance. Astounding.

So, EU had ordered 80 million doses for delivery 1st Q 2021.
Then AZ, (Anglo-Swedish company) unexpectedly announced earlier this month (January) that it would cut supplies to the EU of its vaccine. So instead of 80 million doses, they would deliver 23 million doses.

The same week, the U.K. news reported that their supply from AZ wasn’t being cut, but they’re talking about increasing doses delivered:

“The pace of Britain's rollout of COVID-19 vaccines is being limited by the supply of shots, and the government is working with both Pfizer and AstraZeneca to increase supplies, health minister Matt Hancock said on Thursday.”

news.yahoo.com/astrazeneca-vaccine-rollout-england-extended-000511637.html

Increase supplies? How? Are EU ordered vaccines being diverted to the U.K. “increase supplies” ramp up of vaccine doses? Fair question.

This was unacceptable so, last week AZ offered another 8 million doses, bringing total to 31 million doses. Still less than half.

Then vaccine row occurred. Which we’ve all discussed.

Now AZ has offered an addition 9 million doses, bringing what they will deliver to 40 million, or half of what they promised in the contract.

See: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-more-vaccine-doses-uk-astrazeneca-oxford-b918103.html

Why can’t you understand why EU people are a bit angry? The sequence of events is a bit fishy you have to admit.

@HelloMissus But they do have an obligation to notify UK, which they didn’t.

@Wildswim

The fact that technically the EU commission could impose a hard border on the island of Ireland without consulting anyone about it shows up everything that is wrong with the EU.

It's far too powerful, it's unelected and unaccountable.

But Boris can do the same, income A16 without an Act of Parliament can he not? So what is big difference between 1 elected man and 1 elected commission of several men and women with same executive powers?

*invoke not income sorry

@PlanDeRaccordement
You can keep posting that, still not real.
The EU contract did not entitle them to any stock from AZ UK (different company) nor even to a supply or delivery at any particular time.

They messed up and when they were not able to bully to get their way they hit out.

The whole world sees them for what they always have been.

@PlanDeRaccordement

So, EU had ordered 80 million doses for delivery 1st Q 2021. Then AZ, (Anglo-Swedish company) unexpectedly announced earlier this month (January) that it would cut supplies to the EU of its vaccine. So instead of 80 million doses, they would deliver 23 million doses.

The same week, the U.K. news reported that their supply from AZ wasn’t being cut, but they’re talking about increasing doses delivered:

“The pace of Britain's rollout of COVID-19 vaccines is being limited by the supply of shots, and the government is working with both Pfizer and AstraZeneca to increase supplies, health minister Matt Hancock said on Thursday.”

news.yahoo.com/astrazeneca-vaccine-rollout-england-extended-000511637.html

Increase supplies? How? Are EU ordered vaccines being diverted to the U.K. “increase supplies” ramp up of vaccine doses? Fair question.

This was unacceptable so, last week AZ offered another 8 million doses, bringing total to 31 million doses. Still less than half.

Then vaccine row occurred. Which we’ve all discussed.

Now AZ has offered an addition 9 million doses, bringing what they will deliver to 40 million, or half of what they promised in the contract.

See: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-more-vaccine-doses-uk-astrazeneca-oxford-b918103.html

Why can’t you understand why EU people are a bit angry? The sequence of events is a bit fishy you have to admit.

Its really odd how are they managing to manufacture and deliver all these doses to eu as well as UK if their European factories are not doing well. Are they upping their production in uk factories. Its a lot extra find out no where and still half of what EU needs. Phizer can't meet demand Moderna alos having issues and think only delivering 25% of eu orders in Feb

But Boris can do the same, income A16 without an Act of Parliament can he not? So what is big difference between 1 elected man and 1 elected commission of several men and women with same executive powers?

The difference is that Boris could be voted out at the next election. How can EU citizens get rid of VdL? Or any of the Commission bigwigs?

@DamnUserName21 As for the UK seeing Ireland as a 'clueless stupid idiot' it's a real shame some Irish feel we think that way. I'd argue it's the Commission that feels that way rather than the UK govt but hey ho.

Maybe you should read the below all of which appeared on this thread alone

the Irish can lie through their teeth that they're happy and it was just a mistake, but no-one believes them. Just bit sad and makes them look foolish.

My Mum is in Ireland and I would very much like her to be vaccinated ASAP. Perhaps if your government could have procured its own vaccine it would have been a lot quicker. You had the highest rate in world a week or so ago (although much lower pop density than here so easier to get under control).

Just because you can't stand up to them, doesn't mean you're not being treated like shit though. You are nothing to them.

I'm not saying you would be better off without them. But you can allow yourself a moment of anger or even irritation at the people who are were prepared to fuck you over without a second thought the day before yesterday.

You don't need to blindly defend everything they do.

I was quite shocked but the Irish really do seem to be very pro EU and careful not to criticise them.

Yeah, but like the abused partner stood there with a black eye saying they walked into the door, no-one really believes them - blank behind the eyes.

I saw that and agree they really want to believe it, but you can almost see them flinch that they might say the wrong thing and don't want to be punished.

It is also the case that Ireland wanted to bring in Astra Zenaca vaccines to have them ready to roll out as soon as they were, approved but Brussels denied permission and said no. Increasingly Ireland is looking like the lackey of Brussels

Ireland is cravenly pro-EU to the point where they are now trying to gloss over the international humiliation of not being consulted by the EU before it reneged on the NI protocol.

Why did the Irish Times devote an editorial this week to attacking Boris Johnson? Why the obsession with the British? Why not hold your own government to account? It's baffling.

Yes "gloss over" is the wording I couldn't find! He almost looked uncomfortable when it was pointed out numerous times that A16 was a horrid move and threatened them.
The reply was simply "but they didn't" Felt very much like someone trying to argue it didn't matter that they held a gun at your head - because they didn't actually shoot and therefore your weren't harmed.

@HelloMissus

plan of course the EU don’t have to consult the ROI about tearing up the Good Friday Agreemebt after years of civil conflict. But you think it might be a frigging good idea.

To be fair the EU Commission consists of one elected member from each EU nation plus an also elected president. Each member is responsible for informing their nation. So it’s not like they were totally in the dark. They were informed, but not consulted.

Why can’t you understand why EU people are a bit angry?

I don't blame them for being angry, but it should be with EU Commission for fucking up vaccine procurement for obviously not being up to the job, not AZ or the British government.

Article 16 is ONLY necessary because of Brexit. It's new and not the fault of the EU. Yes, it was wrongly handled. But all of this is media shit stirred up by British press to take away from all the bad news. Let's focus on big, bad EU, the bastards, instead of incompetence of U.K. Govt. The EU wants the vaccines it paid for, and wants to ensure it can protect its citizens. Most of the rest is smoke and mirrors. Why not focus on the difficulty getting deliveries into NI instead?

[quote whatisthislifesofullofcare]@PlanDeRaccordement
You can keep posting that, still not real.
The EU contract did not entitle them to any stock from AZ UK (different company) nor even to a supply or delivery at any particular time.

They messed up and when they were not able to bully to get their way they hit out.

The whole world sees them for what they always have been.[/quote]
There is no such thing as a contract in which you pay billions in money but have zero legal right to the goods you are purchasing. It doesn’t exist. Of course the contract entitles the EU to delivery of vaccines. The question is whether or not half the promised number is truly “best effort” or “lacking effort”
.

@PlanDeRaccordement

So, EU had ordered 80 million doses for delivery 1st Q 2021. Then AZ, (Anglo-Swedish company) unexpectedly announced earlier this month (January) that it would cut supplies to the EU of its vaccine. So instead of 80 million doses, they would deliver 23 million doses.

The same week, the U.K. news reported that their supply from AZ wasn’t being cut, but they’re talking about increasing doses delivered:

“The pace of Britain's rollout of COVID-19 vaccines is being limited by the supply of shots, and the government is working with both Pfizer and AstraZeneca to increase supplies, health minister Matt Hancock said on Thursday.”

news.yahoo.com/astrazeneca-vaccine-rollout-england-extended-000511637.html

Increase supplies? How? Are EU ordered vaccines being diverted to the U.K. “increase supplies” ramp up of vaccine doses? Fair question.

This was unacceptable so, last week AZ offered another 8 million doses, bringing total to 31 million doses. Still less than half.

Then vaccine row occurred. Which we’ve all discussed.

Now AZ has offered an addition 9 million doses, bringing what they will deliver to 40 million, or half of what they promised in the contract.

See: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/eu-more-vaccine-doses-uk-astrazeneca-oxford-b918103.html

Why can’t you understand why EU people are a bit angry? The sequence of events is a bit fishy you have to admit.

I absolutely see why the EU is pissed off.

But, that's between EU and AZ, not the EU and UK. I also need to highlight that the UK signed their contract 3 months ahead and would have put in delivery timelines. Same as the EU, sure, but 3 months later. And I'm pretty certain there likely is a 'first supply' clause in the UK contract.
Ultimately, I feel AZ need to clarify what the hell is going on.