What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

I don’t think Europeans will use AZ vaccine anyway, France and Germany have made sure they have put enough negative statements to insure doubt in European nationals

I just thing it might be more productive to draw a line under it and move on? Tempers will flare during a global pandemic

I think it depends very much on what happens over the next few weeks. If Pfizer deliveries continue unimpeded then I would agree. Plus I would like to see us support the RoI with vaccine doses (and possibly with ITU capacity, as and when we aren't drownign ourselves.)

If the export controls are used in a way I fear they may be then it's clearly a different situation. Which is not something I would have even considered a week ago. I guess all this has knocked my confidence in the principles of the EU, which will take time to recover.

@Baileysforchristmas

I don’t think Europeans will use AZ vaccine anyway, France and Germany have made sure they have put enough negative statements to insure doubt in European nationals

Here in Portugal they've said a batch is arriving on Feb 9th. We certainly will be using them as quickly as possible, things here are dire right now.

Can you imagine if one of our government cabinets had made a mistake on this scale, would they still have a job now?

@LimitIsUp

I must say I do feel uncomfortable with some of the comments re Ireland - it's a bit patronising to think that the nature of Ireland's relationship with the EU is any of the UK's business

It was fair game for everyone to discuss UK relationship for past 5-6 years with arguments both sides and be told we were stupid to leave. (For full disclosure I was remain).

So I don't see it any different that people discuss Ireland's position mow in relation to them being in EU. And it's fair to consider whether it was right for eu to say Ireland couldn't order their own doses. Or if Ireland would have been better to do with UK offer.

Doesn't mean we don't value a country or their own choices.

@stripeyIIIIItscmsfkmf i’m so pleased to hear that and the negative comments haven’t put people off 👍

@Baileysforchristmas

Can you imagine if one of our government cabinets had made a mistake on this scale, would they still have a job now?

Sadly under Boris I fear they would!

I don't know LimitIsUp. I think I was a reluctant leaver and up until the last week I was of the view, good, we've got a deal, lets move on (really hoping we join the CTPPP). But after hearing that Italy was considering suing AZ I thought fuck it, I always buy Italian pinot grigio but I'll start buying an OZ or NZ one instead which is petty I know.

I think you can superficially draw a line under it and governments will hopefully maintain the diplomacy but the trust may be gone.

No the Commission don't do anything anyone tells them - they're in charge.
Commission are the equivalent of our elected government except you can't vote them in or out - they're ultimately in charge of the important things - taxes, spending, direction and speed of travel to ever closer union. The Council can try to but brakes on or speed up the Commission, but democracy moves further and further away from the electorate.

The House of Lords is more like the MEPs parliament ie. only can initiate less important laws ie "stuff", but nothing earth shatteringly important and certainly don't tell anyone what to do.

The EU parliament can propose laws to the Commission (minor issues, not important things at all) but the Commission has the say so and the parliament vote on majority voting.

The Commission and President make the decisions - and that's why it's rubbish that the Irish incident happened by mistake. Nothing happens without the say so of the Commission.

I don’t think Europeans will use AZ vaccine anyway, France and Germany have made sure they have put enough negative statements to insure doubt in European nationals

That's the ultimate irony.

I'm glad to hear Portugal are getting supplies.

@itsgettingweird well you maybe right but at least we are very critical of our government and soon pull them up on their bad behaviour

Floppy I agree, the unelected Commission seem to hold 90 % of the power. But most EU citizens on here appear to be OK with that so who are we to criticise it?

Heard a Portuguese EU person on R4 this morning glossing over the whole UvdL debacle. Saying it was nothing. Everything is fine we are getting our vaccines.

It’s all a bit scary really.

@Baileysforchristmas

I don’t think Europeans will use AZ vaccine anyway, France and Germany have made sure they have put enough negative statements to insure doubt in European nationals

Yes and a couple of weeks ago support for vaccines in France was only 54%. I don't know what it is now, maybe less with their president rubbishing the effectiveness of AZ.

Actually, James Forsythe in the Spectator reports the results of a cross-European survey-

Those who said they 'would definitely get' the vaccine:

UK - 70%
Germany - 41%
France - 30%

Is that any vaccine or the AZ one?

Any vaccine

It was last year, latest update in December and it was any vaccine and the richer the country the less confidence in vaccination at all!

I haven't found updates for 2021

The Germany and France figures are a bit scary then. I knew France was reluctant but I didn't know the same was true of Germany. So are they happy living in lockdown?

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@itsgettingweird well you maybe right but at least we are very critical of our government and soon pull them up on their bad behaviour[/quote]
Agree with that.

It was fair game for everyone to discuss UK relationship for past 5-6 years with arguments both sides and be told we were stupid to leave

Indeed. The Irish were very interested in Brexit - for good reason of course - and didn't hold back on attacking UK's stupidity and small-mindedness.

As I understand it, A16 was not invoked. It was mentioned in the draft for legislation to enable reporting on potential export of drugs out with the EU. Obviously the Irish/Ni border causes an issue in this respect so the protocol was seen to be needed. Obviously as soon as this came to light, the sensitivity of the issue meant they quickly stamped on it. It's no,worse than Boris's mention of it a week or so back, and is only potentially needed because of the UKs Brexit deal. A16 is meant to be a short term measure whilst issues are sorted.

A16 is meant to be a short term measure whilst issues are sorted.

Sure, but in this case invoking, or the threat of invoking, that measure wasn't necessary. After all, as many PPs have stated, the issue is with EU and AZ, not with the EU and UK.
Plus even the Commission knows that introducing a hard border (if only for vaccinations/medicines) could cause a lot of problems on the island of Ireland. It really is a measure of last resort--not a short term measure.

Even the threat of invoking Article 16 (and especially threatening it without the knowledge of the Irish government) is a massive deal. Which is why the EU are now saying 'but it didn't happen, it didn't actually happen!' The fact that the threat was made is incredibly serious and unfortunately it's now given the DUP a valid reason to kick up a fuss.

Anyone who does not understand the seriousness of the situation really doesn't understand the issues.

My take on it, as someone who negotiates commercial contracts for a living, is that the lawyers on both sides are presumably not stupid, there would have been many, many discussions on a contract of this size, most likely documented, and that quantities and delivery dates would have been hot on the agenda given the circumstances. It's strange that nearly 6 months after signature that AZ announce they can't deliver what they presumably promised. This was actually in the news some weeks ago, it didn't all happen on Friday. Fair enough that production issues are to blame, but I think the EU suspect some funny business somewhere hence why this has all kicked off suddenly,