What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

[quote MrsOliviaGrant]@napody I am a citizen of Ireland it’s it’s barely getting an airtime here or being discussed in conversation in my Locality. If they hadn’t revoked their statement it would be very different but the whole thing came out late in the evening and on the same day was revoked before I even went to sleep.[/quote]
I know. My Mum is in Ireland and I would very much like her to be vaccinated ASAP. Perhaps if your government could have procured its own vaccine it would have been a lot quicker. You had the highest rate in world a week or so ago (although much lower pop density than here so easier to get under control).

Just because you can't stand up to them, doesn't mean you're not being treated like shit though. You are nothing to them.

@IcedPurple you are incorrect. Reported today in Irish media EU Commissioner Mairead McGuinness has said the EU's intention to trigger Article 16 was a mistake that has had consequences and there has been fallout.She said the normal and proper scrutiny of such a decision did not happen in this instance. Ms McGuiness pointed to what she called justifiable anger towards AstraZeneca over the vaccine row as to why it happened,but said "It shouldn't have happened".*

Eh? That's not an apology! It wasn't McGuiness who made this 'mistake'. Why isn't the person responsibly, presumably Von der Leyen, apologising?

UvdL hasn't apologized at all! Any Irish explanation not apology is totally unnecessary, they did bugger all wrong!

@napody you honestly think that as a tiny island we would have had better luck negotiating on our own?? Highly unlikely.

Just because you can't stand up to them, doesn't mean you're not being treated like shit though. You are nothing to them. and you are everything to Boris Johnson! You live in the country with one of the highest death rates from covid in the world for Christ sake!

My father got EU funds to improve his farmland and EU grants to supplement his income and small farm holding. I received an EU grant that allowed me to undertake an Erasmus abroad which was one of the most enriching experiences of my life and which as a farmers daughter I wouldn’t have been able to afford to pay for. In my work I have been on ECB task forces where I have worked with my colleagues to deal with issues in my area and created friendships from those relationships. My trip home to see my parents now takes 50 minutes instead of two hours as EU funded motorways were built. I travel round the EU on weekends (pre covid obviously) with a common currency and travel area on weekends. These are just the ways the EU has benefitted me personally.

Honestly the U.K. does one thing right in this whole pandemic and suddenly everyone outside the U.K. is being abused and gaslight and treated like shit. The EU has flaws but so do all governments and I personally have experienced far more positives from EU membership than I would have without.

And sorry to be that poster, but you all seem to have conveniently forgotten how the U.K. used to be in charge of Ireland and treated Ireland atrociously in the past doing untold damage to our country and our people.

Why just last year one of your ministers threatened to starve us out if we didn’t acquise on Brexit terms. But yeah the EU is the big bad wolf!

I'm an EU citizen living in Uk. I think EU commission was in the wrong on this one. Yes its frustrating that there are delays but give it a month or so and the situation will have improved. People in my own home country aren't that bothered about what has happened but they have the fortune of having a competent government that acted decisively as soon as the Covid threat was realised so they weren't so badly affected. Mostly they are more interested in what is the most efficient order of vaccinating the population and whether AZ is effective enough for over 65s.

Not disagreeing with any of that, or thinking BJ gives a shit either. Haven't forgotten any of that, believe me

But you are blaming the wrong people for this. They have got you in a mess over this. I'm not saying you would be better off without them. But you can allow yourself a moment of anger or even irritation at the people who are were prepared to fuck you over without a second thought the day before yesterday.

Is there a time when a line can be drawn?

Or are we all doomed to be held to ransom by the past, to drag it kicking and screaming into our now, to our own detriment?

Cos from here, English with Irish and Scottish ancestry, friends and relatives living in both, it seems that just as we can see an even keel someone runs to the right then runs to the left and unbalances the while fucking ship again!

MrsOliviaGrant looking back over your posts you are arguing with what you THINK people are saying or you THINK they think. Not what they are actually saying. I know the coverage in Ireland is 'the English variant' etc etc. Which is fine, but if it turns out it originated in France I won't hold my breath for it becoming 'the European variant'. It's OK to hate what the UK has done to your country and ALSO acknowledge that the EU was quite happy to sell you down the river. You don't need to blindly defend everything they do.

Just a question - is the anger being expressed because 1) the EU have put a process in place to prioritise fulfilment of its contracts over exports or 2) because they invoked article 16 ?

Maybe both!

Largely disbelief at the tone of their reaction.

I don't think I am angry, but I was scared for a while. A16, and leaving us off the Nice List, seemed to be far too aggressive in the circumstances.

@CuriousaboutSamphire it was just last year that Patel suggesting starving Irish people so not exactly the past. That plus our awful past means it’s a bit rich to be saying from the U.K. that the EU are treating us like shit and we just don’t realise it. We know what it’s like to be treated like shit (not that I am speaking for all Irish people just myself).

@napody I’m not blaming anyone for ‘this’ if ‘this’ is the vaccine delay. In response to the OP I said that it’s being whipped up into a frenzy by U.K. media as a EU attacking U.K./jealous of the U.K./EU stealing U.K. vaccines. In my circles it’s more like, EU should try get vaccines if they believe the contract said so and deal with it in court. And controlling where exports are going also makes sense.

Re Article 16, that moment to be angry was when I read about it in the news. It was then resolved a few hours later and Mairead McGuiness who I am a big fan of has come out and said it was a mistake and shouldn’t have happened. So that is good enough for me.

We also really don’t know if we are even in a mess. If production picks up of all vaccines, if one dose J&J is approved in a few months vaccines could be given out very quickly. We have to wait and see. We are all in lockdown for another month or more regardless.

@whatisthislifesofullofcare

A top Belgian attorney has already opined that the EU have no case, and there are no end of folk in the know on Twitter, who concur.

A Spanish friend of mine who's a lawyer said the same. She said the EUs biggest concern could be if AZ take action over the non correctly redacted papers they published.

However she thinks they won't.

@napody I think you’re guilty of that yourself! I’m trying to explain it’s literally not getting the attention here it is with you. I’ve no idea why you’ve brought up the English variant?? Do you think Irish people are blaming the U.K. for our cases going up or something!?

I’m not blatantly defending everything the EU do. I just don’t think they are the evil overlord you seem to think they are and I know your media has bombarded the U.K. with that message for years now but it doesn’t make it true.

I really hope that they are given out quickly.

I am pretty sure Ireland tried to buy its own supplies but was prevented by the EU from doing so - having said that I can't find a link as all googling brings up the events of the past couple of days!

And obviously Priti Patel is an absolute horror. Nobody denying that.

@Floppywin

I think the MN phrase popular on MN for the recent EU behaviour is: gaslighting.

We know what happened, they know what happened - but they tilt their head and say : "but it was a mistake" with the smile that doesn't reach the eyes....

No-one, but no-one has fallen for the EU's "mistake" - the Irish can lie through their teeth that they're happy and it was just a mistake, but no-one believes them. Just bit sad and makes them look foolish.

There's a good interview on Andrew Marr this morning. I was quite shocked but the Irish really do seem to be very pro EU and careful not to criticise them.

MrsO you have missed my point. All you do is invite the truly bigoted to bring up the more recent knife attacks, murders etc in Ireland and try and justify the blathering of a much reviled politician.

The hatred, the violence, the wish to prolong hostilities is not one sided...

[quote MrsOliviaGrant]@napody I think you’re guilty of that yourself! I’m trying to explain it’s literally not getting the attention here it is with you. I’ve no idea why you’ve brought up the English variant?? Do you think Irish people are blaming the U.K. for our cases going up or something!?

I’m not blatantly defending everything the EU do. I just don’t think they are the evil overlord you seem to think they are and I know your media has bombarded the U.K. with that message for years now but it doesn’t make it true.[/quote]
Evil overlord!!
I am a remainer, and am surprised and saddened about the EU's behaviour. And angry that they have slowed the Irish vaccine rollout with their poor handling.

No I get what you mean when you say the Irish media aren't covering it. Sounds like it's the same across the EU. Easier to blame the UK because Priti Patel said something vile last year (and probably every day since).

That's fine- you are clearly OK with the speed of your rollout. I am not, and am angry with the people who have caused that.

Focalpoint I think people are rightly angry about the threat to invoke article 16 but of course both of the points are tinged with Brexit controversy.

The EU's reaction was too agressive and wrong but people are forgetting though that Boris threatened to invoke Article 16 just a few weeks ago.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/watch-we-will-have-no-hesitation-in-triggering-article-16-if-necessary-says-boris-johnson-39964412.html

Yeah, but like the abused partner stood there with a black eye saying they walked into the door, no-one really believes them - blank behind the eyes.

I saw that and agree they really want to believe it, but you can almost see them flinch that they might say the wrong thing and don't want to be punished.

@Avondklok
'They want to ensure Pfizer doesn't go all AZ on them...'
well put.
I'd be interested in your colleague's take on the contract.

@whatisthislifesofullofcare

This professor doesn't share that view.
www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/html5/#/radio1/21901555

There's a slight difference.

BJ said there'd be no hesitation if commerce continued to be harmed.

UvdL invoked/triggered A16 with little discussion with member states and no discussion with the UK or ROI.

Which is why I was trying to find out what precisely happened. Was A16 actually in place for a few hours?

Could you round it up for me please Summer I'm on my phone, it won't play.

I see it's from an Irish perspective, an EU perspective I think. I'm interested to understand that.

No sarcasm there, I promise!

@Floppywin

Yeah, but like the abused partner stood there with a black eye saying they walked into the door, no-one really believes them - blank behind the eyes.

I saw that and agree they really want to believe it, but you can almost see them flinch that they might say the wrong thing and don't want to be punished.

Yes, that would be we French being the abused partner with the black eye. For years, you know the U.K. rebate UK had to get money back from your EU contribution? Yes, that wasn’t free money, we French had to put extra in EU pot to cover UK. Le cheque britannique. Look it up.

Now AZ is doing a back door deal to ship fill all U.K. orders but telling us sorry, no can’t fill the EU orders by the contractually binding delivery date they told EU and signed on the dotted line.

So we in EU are just supposed to just bear not being shipped paid for and ordered AZ vaccines and still happily export vaccines from Belgium to U.K. And we are the bad ones?