What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

Best Reasonable Efforts is a defined term in the AZ contract basically saying that the expectation is that AZ will perform in the manner a company of that size/experience should be reasonably be expected to perform. So when they say they can expect to provide 300 million doses and then suddenly say they can't when in fact they are producing large quantities for other companies.....well I can see why EU is upset. Of course we don't know what is in the U.K. contract and if they have something like a "most favoured customer" clause. I'm certainly going to have a chat with our Head of Legal tomorrow. (Large Belgian financial services company). Interested to hear his view.

Countries not companies.

That's one of those differences in reporting.

Did the EU trigger A16 and later undo that or did it.say it would to and change its mind?

All EU supporting media say they were going to but didn't, antis say they did...

The language used helps that obfuscation... invoke, trigger etc.

Nonetheless, the intention was clearly stated. A FIRST response and a really aggressive one!

A top Belgian attorney has already opined that the EU have no case, and there are no end of folk in the know on Twitter, who concur.

@CuriousaboutSamphire what are your thoughts on Arlene asking U.K. to trigger article 16 a few weeks ago? Was that also a FIRST response and an aggressive one or is that just when the EU so something?

MrsOlivia Give didn't say that! He reported that after discussions with UvdL there would be no disruption to UK supply.

That isn't surmise, I saw/heard him say it. Much as I detest the man he was measured and calm in what he said!

[quote MrsOliviaGrant]@napody what threats? The EU are looking into keeping all Pfizer manufactured on EU for use vaccinating EU citizens. As U.K. have a much larger consignment of AZ vaccine to use. That’s sensible not a threat. They said in a draft statement they were going to invoke Article 16. A few hours later they apologised and said they were not. Again not a threat.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity I don’t think Gove helped. I was shocked to see him come out and publicly say essentially ‘we won’t let them take any of our vaccines’ if he wanted to actually help he should have said ‘the EU are not stealing our vaccines. This is a production dispute between AZ and EU over doses manufactured in U.K.’. That might actually have calmed the U.K. media down![/quote]
Um, both the actions you stated are threats. What do you think the word means?

@CuriousaboutSamphire fair enough. I saw a media headline not the actual interview so maybe it was more incendiary reporting from U.K. media rather than the truth

Yes! MrsO it was equally stupid then too!

Most political prancing around the reality of an Irish border has been aggressive and stupid at times, for decades!

Oh, MrsO you seem to have me tagged as anti EU.

It is entirely possible that you are wrong in that surmise!

@napody why is it a threat to try keep EU produced vaccines in the EU but not a threat to keep U.K. produced vaccines in the U.K.? It can’t work both ways! IMO it’s worth looking into by the EU. So we can start vaccinating our vulnerable!

[quote MrsOliviaGrant]**@CuriousaboutSamphire* what are your thoughts on Arlene asking U.K. to trigger article 16 a few weeks ago? Was that also a FIRST response and an aggressive one* or is that just when the EU so something?[/quote]
I know this wasn't aimed at me but yes, it was. I was less shocked by her though - it's the citizens of Ireland I'm concerned about.

Trust me - thinking Arlene and Gove have some good points and the EU is being aggressive and unreasonable is coming as a real shock to myself.

[quote MrsOliviaGrant]@napody why is it a threat to try keep EU produced vaccines in the EU but not a threat to keep U.K. produced vaccines in the U.K.? It can’t work both ways! IMO it’s worth looking into by the EU. So we can start vaccinating our vulnerable![/quote]
'The UK' aren't threatening anything.

If the EU want to sue AZ they have the right to do so.

They said in a draft statement they were going to invoke Article 16. A few hours later they apologised

They did no such thing.

It does start to redefine reality doesn't it?

I mean The Goviot and common sense????

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Oh, MrsO you seem to have me tagged as anti EU.

It is entirely possible that you are wrong in that surmise!

:D and me! It's almost as if we can form an opinion on events as they occur, even if they don't line up with preexisting biases!

[quote MrsOliviaGrant]@napody what threats? The EU are looking into keeping all Pfizer manufactured on EU for use vaccinating EU citizens. As U.K. have a much larger consignment of AZ vaccine to use. That’s sensible not a threat. They said in a draft statement they were going to invoke Article 16. A few hours later they apologised and said they were not. Again not a threat.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity I don’t think Gove helped. I was shocked to see him come out and publicly say essentially ‘we won’t let them take any of our vaccines’ if he wanted to actually help he should have said ‘the EU are not stealing our vaccines. This is a production dispute between AZ and EU over doses manufactured in U.K.’. That might actually have calmed the U.K. media down![/quote]
Ahhhhh the "possession is nine tenths of the law" argument.

Yes, I would say requiring a company to fail to deliver on orders placed months before your own, on the grounds that 'it's made on our turf and we need it' is the very definition of a threat. I can (almost) see an argument that the suffering from the pandemic is such that making such a grab is justified, but that's putting expediency above the rule of law and will inevitably cause long-term damage to the EU's reputation as a fair player. Especially as the company in question is American, and Americans tend to have firm views on their business interests being compromised.

I can understand the view of the EU on the Pfizer etc vaccine. They haven't "threatened to stop export", they said they want reports now on what is planned to go where. They want to ensure Pfizer doesn't go all AZ on them and ship all their vaccines elsewhere. They want to protect their contracts and protect EU citizens. U.K. are doing the same.

@napody I am a citizen of Ireland it’s it’s barely getting an airtime here or being discussed in conversation in my Locality. If they hadn’t revoked their statement it would be very different but the whole thing came out late in the evening and on the same day was revoked before I even went to sleep.

IcedPurple what did they do?

I am not trying to be combative here, I want to know what actual happened and so far the incendiary language used, that I saw live or have read, have obfuscated what did actually happen.

I think the MN phrase popular on MN for the recent EU behaviour is: gaslighting.

We know what happened, they know what happened - but they tilt their head and say : "but it was a mistake" with the smile that doesn't reach the eyes....

No-one, but no-one has fallen for the EU's "mistake" - the Irish can lie through their teeth that they're happy and it was just a mistake, but no-one believes them. Just bit sad and makes them look foolish.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

IcedPurple what did they do?

I am not trying to be combative here, I want to know what actual happened and so far the incendiary language used, that I saw live or have read, have obfuscated what did actually happen.

They backpeddled furiously after angry phone calls from London, Belfast and Dublin in addition to, if it is to be believed, Michel Barnier.

What they did not to was apologise, or admit any wrong whatsoever.

Avon then what was all the A16 stuff about then?

Thanks IcedPurple that, including Barnier, is pretty much what I understand. I just wondered if 'invoked' etc meant that for a few hours A16 was actually EU law!

@Floppywin I think gaslighting is insisting you know what someone or in this case the entirety of the population of the EU are really thinking and that they don’t think what they are saying they think! How’s that for some gaslighting mind games.

@IcedPurple you are incorrect. Reported today in Irish media EU Commissioner Mairead McGuinness has said the EU's intention to trigger Article 16 was a mistake that has had consequences and there has been fallout.She said the normal and proper scrutiny of such a decision did not happen in this instance. Ms McGuiness pointed to what she called justifiable anger towards AstraZeneca over the vaccine row as to why it happened,but said "It shouldn't have happened".