What do EU nationals think of the vaccines mess?

[Frazzled2207]

I’m a committed remainer. But the EU really did mess up last night. More seriously they are not in a good position right now with regards vaccine supply. Lots of anti-Eu posts here right now from committed remainers like me.

Just wondering what EU citizens make of all this and is there any bad feeling towards the UK? Do you think the EU has a right to some of the UK’s vaccine supply? Are people angry at the fact that the UK was able to secure more vaccines more quickly? Or are we coming across as selfish idiots?
Generally curious and am not here to start an argument

My friend is German, living in Germany. She thought we were mad for the whole Brexit thing. For years she maintained that it was the wrong choice for the us. She has been incredibly vocal over it.

We were chatting on zoom last night and she said the feeling has completely changed over there and they would be better off out of the EU. She said as much as she wants Germany to have the vaccine ASAP it's not down to us to help, the eu screwed up.

Golly that’s interesting and worrying.
I am still a supporter of the EU generally and will never be a brexiter but it really does seem an almighty mess that could cost many lives (for entirely different reasons we’ve obviously made many many covid mistakes but it looks like vaccines might be the one area where we made the right call). Hopefully by the summer everything will have evened out and every country in Europe at least will have what it needs

I’m a supporter of EU. This mess was caused by Brexit. British remainers did in fact warn the U.K. that the EU can close borders to imports and exports in times of emergency. They were laughed at and their warnings called Project Fear. With lots of “they (the EU) need our British exports more than we need theirs”

Of course, no one thought the exports would be vaccines from EU to U.K. during a pandemic. But as you can easily see, the U.K. needs this export. So this is a bed of thorns made by Brexit and it was fair to remind the UK of this. So, now you are reminded of the mistake of Brexit, it is ok by me to send some of our vaccines to you as a humanitarian gesture. Like we do aid to other countries as well.

@PlanDeRaccordement

I’m a supporter of EU. This mess was caused by Brexit. British remainers did in fact warn the U.K. that the EU can close borders to imports and exports in times of emergency. They were laughed at and their warnings called Project Fear. With lots of “they (the EU) need our British exports more than we need theirs”

Of course, no one thought the exports would be vaccines from EU to U.K. during a pandemic. But as you can easily see, the U.K. needs this export. So this is a bed of thorns made by Brexit and it was fair to remind the UK of this. So, now you are reminded of the mistake of Brexit, it is ok by me to send some of our vaccines to you as a humanitarian gesture. Like we do aid to other countries as well.

Its a business transaction not charity and its actually nothing to do with us personally its down to the contacts that were negotiated with the vaccine producer who also have a factory in England which you want the supplies diverted from

Its not a charity we paid for our vaccine same as you its up to the company to resolve this

Contracts not contacts obviously

@PlanDeRaccordement I'm very pro remain but you are talking utter nonsense.

An emergency is not the EU screwing up their vaccine ordering. An emergency is not taking it out on the UK government when its a business transaction with a company. An emergency is not having made any reasonable attempt to resolve it like adults..

@PlanDeRaccordement You sound like the mouthpiece of von der leyen - get into the real world, the EU messed up its vaccines contracts and now is trying to blame anyone to deflect from them. The EU also put great faith in Sanofi, probably due to pressure from Macron which turned out to be poor. The EMA is in chaos since it moved from London and is short of staff and expertise.

This mess was caused by Brexit. British remainers did in fact warn the U.K. that the EU can close borders to imports and exports in times of emergency.

It's n no one's interest to start a vaccine trade war though is it? Neither the UK or the EU. If Britain was to retaliate that would have implications for the EU and that is not a sensible direction to set off in and has lost The EU an awful lot of credibility here.

Its a business transaction not charity and its actually nothing to do with us personally its down to the contacts that were negotiated with the vaccine producer who also have a factory in England which you want the supplies diverted from. Its not a charity we paid for our vaccine same as you its up to the company to resolve this

@Theunamedcat

Yes I understand this is relating to contracts between Astra Zeneca and the U.K. and EU. Agree has nothing to do with us. But the governments do have legal basis to direct who gets their contracts fulfilled first.

Every nation, UK included, has laws on the books that in times of emergency, that nation or bloc’s manufacturers are required to prioritise contracts based on not who paid or ordered first, but to their own nation or bloc’s orders first.

So for example during Iraq and Afghan wars, US and EU implemented these laws that manufacturers within their nations had to supply their own governments before fulfilling any foreign contracts. U.K. was in EU at the time.

Pandemics are also national emergencies too. Unfortunately the U.K. is no longer in the EU and so are viewed as “foreign contracts” that are then become lower priority than the EU contracts.

@PlanDeRaccordement you are just determined to frame this situation into something which suits your view point. I cited remain and was sure Brexit would cause chaos for a couple of years. I was even worried when we didn't sign up to the EU vaccination purchase programme. I think our government has done very well with its own programme and the EU comes out looking like incompetent bullies, particularly with their actions towards NI.

[quote Mumofsend]@PlanDeRaccordement I'm very pro remain but you are talking utter nonsense.

An emergency is not the EU screwing up their vaccine ordering. An emergency is not taking it out on the UK government when its a business transaction with a company. An emergency is not having made any reasonable attempt to resolve it like adults..[/quote]
But a pandemic is an emergency. So we, whole world, is actually in a state of emergency.

We ordered huge amounts without even knowing if they worked. Did other countries do this?

it is ok by me to send some of our vaccines to you as a humanitarian gesture

I thought the issue was that the EU wanted the UK's vaccines and not the other way around?

[quote Rosehip10]@PlanDeRaccordement You sound like the mouthpiece of von der leyen - get into the real world, the EU messed up its vaccines contracts and now is trying to blame anyone to deflect from them. The EU also put great faith in Sanofi, probably due to pressure from Macron which turned out to be poor. The EMA is in chaos since it moved from London and is short of staff and expertise.[/quote]
No, EU is not casting blame anywhere. Just reminding you it could exercise it’s legal right to direct it’s own manufacturers to prioritise EU contracts for delivery ahead of foreign countries contracts in a state of emergency.

@noblegiraffe

it is ok by me to send some of our vaccines to you as a humanitarian gesture

I thought the issue was that the EU wanted the UK's vaccines and not the other way around?

They’re not your UK vaccines until they’ve been delivered to the U.K. They're Astra Zeneca vaccines and the EU has authority to direct AZ to deliver on EU contracts before U.K. contracts regardless of who ordered first.

EU is fighting hard for its own citizens. UK would do the same if the roles were reversed.

Not excusing the EU: they have messed this vaccine procurement business to the detriment of EU citizens.

But the basic idea of making vaccines on your territory to export them to save lives abroad rather than lives at home is what people in the EU find unacceptable. It is - clearly - the patriotic duty of those wielding power to protect its citizens.

I am an EU citizen living in UK. Can not comment on what is happening in my home country re EU-AZ, as my family who still lives back home are avoiding news. And many of my friends are against covid vaccine. I am absolutely appalled by EU behaviour, but have to say not surprised. I was not happy about Brexit, but now I am completely behind UK. I love this country, feel proud of British scientists who developed vaccine, and hope I will be granted uk citizenship one day.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Its a business transaction not charity and its actually nothing to do with us personally its down to the contacts that were negotiated with the vaccine producer who also have a factory in England which you want the supplies diverted from. Its not a charity we paid for our vaccine same as you its up to the company to resolve this

@Theunamedcat

Yes I understand this is relating to contracts between Astra Zeneca and the U.K. and EU. Agree has nothing to do with us. But the governments do have legal basis to direct who gets their contracts fulfilled first.

Every nation, UK included, has laws on the books that in times of emergency, that nation or bloc’s manufacturers are required to prioritise contracts based on not who paid or ordered first, but to their own nation or bloc’s orders first.

So for example during Iraq and Afghan wars, US and EU implemented these laws that manufacturers within their nations had to supply their own governments before fulfilling any foreign contracts. U.K. was in EU at the time.

Pandemics are also national emergencies too. Unfortunately the U.K. is no longer in the EU and so are viewed as “foreign contracts” that are then become lower priority than the EU contracts.

No they don't its contract law it depends on the contract there is no theory that starts "its a global pandemic but we get it first" the reason we got "more" is because they supplied us first we paid and approved first of course we got more

We dont know the ins and outs of the contract cracking down on the Irish boarder like that after fucking YEARS talking about the good Friday agreement was uncalled for sort out your procurement and contracts its literally nothing to do with us

@PlanDeRaccordement

Of course the situation has nothing to do with Brexit. Yes the final action late yesterday re Article 16 is Brexit related, but start back at the beginning:

The EU persuaded member states to not buy their own supply.

They then wasted 3 months trying to get a better price on a not for profit vaccine.

They backed the wrong vaccines due to pressure from France.

They take a long time to approve vaccines.

They suffer a supply issue from their first, German based supplier.

Then they find, what a surprise, they their other supplier also has production issues, given that they have had 3 less months than the other factory just outside of the EU to sort out glitches.

So they immediately start demanding extra supply from another country (note, no demands to get that supply from eg India).

At what point in any of the above is the U.K. at fault?

@PlanDeRaccordement

I’m a supporter of EU. This mess was caused by Brexit. British remainers did in fact warn the U.K. that the EU can close borders to imports and exports in times of emergency. They were laughed at and their warnings called Project Fear. With lots of “they (the EU) need our British exports more than we need theirs”

Of course, no one thought the exports would be vaccines from EU to U.K. during a pandemic. But as you can easily see, the U.K. needs this export. So this is a bed of thorns made by Brexit and it was fair to remind the UK of this. So, now you are reminded of the mistake of Brexit, it is ok by me to send some of our vaccines to you as a humanitarian gesture. Like we do aid to other countries as well.

I couldn't disagree with you more and I voted remain.

@AllWashedOut

EU is fighting hard for its own citizens. UK would do the same if the roles were reversed.

Not excusing the EU: they have messed this vaccine procurement business to the detriment of EU citizens.

But the basic idea of making vaccines on your territory to export them to save lives abroad rather than lives at home is what people in the EU find unacceptable. It is - clearly - the patriotic duty of those wielding power to protect its citizens.

We produce the vaccine in England too

"But the basic idea of making vaccines on your territory to export them to save lives abroad rather than lives at home is what people in the EU find unacceptable. It is - clearly - the patriotic duty of those wielding power to protect its citizens."

They wanted our vaccines that are made here...

"They’re not your UK vaccines until they’ve been delivered to the U.K."

They wanted our vaccines made in the UK..

I think the EU are fighting hard for us. I think the british media are whipping up an anti EU frenzy and I'm incredibly saddened to see how the UK public are lapping it up. Some of the threads on here give the impression that many brits will be cheering with glee if our vaccine rollout fails completely.

I've said this on another thread but to my mind we need to look at the entire question of vaccine acquisition from a global point of view. It's not about the race of one country to get it before another. It's a global pandemic and therefore the response has to be global. In order for the UK to thrive and become economically stable again, it's neighbours need to be Covid-free too. We are all inter-dependent.