Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

@DamnUserName21 it might not go down well but as voters people forget if other thiNgs meets there needs.
Unless she just thinks there is nothing to hide as we don't have loads sat in warehouses and everyone knows how many we have vaccinated and what our targets are,
But it would be nice if all unions leaders stuck together on this one

@Waspnest well thats the thing isn't i thought the plan was to hopefully achieve that , if that becomes apparent its pointless and only x,y,z need the vaccine then sure send elsewhere if we have covered out risk groups.
The vaccines none are 100% and we don't know if they stop spread or how long they will Last.

@Waspnest

Well since we don't know what % is needed for herd immunity surely it makes sense that we vaccinate as many people as possible

We don't only vaccinate 95% of children against measles and not bother with the other 5 %.

If Cv was stable and not constantly mutating as viruses do, then yes we could try.

Many experts seem to think its likely we will have to have an annual CV vaccine, meaning HI will be impossible, we will vaccinate only the vulnerable, maybe offering Cv to the over 50s as they did this year.

@bluethrough not all kids go to uni but if your talking that age group they are months away from getting even a first vaccine ,by then supplies should be better and chance of new vaccines approved.

David Allen Green has written an interesting blog on the possible position under the AZ/EU contract (we can't be sure because it hasn't been made public, but he is an expert in this area and knows his stuff)
davidallengreen.com/2021/01/what-can-be-worked-out-about-the-best-efforts-clause-in-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-supply-agreement/

Publishing UK (Scottish) vaccine numbers will not go down well with her electorate

It will if she can make it sound as if "England's got more" and are somehow cheating the Scots out of theirs ... after all it's a song sheet she's used often enough before

Does anyone have a link to what she's actually said though? I can only find it in the Mail and it's not exactly reliable

Interesting that the title of the thread says 'UK vaccine supply'. I am in an EU country and clearly the news is presented differently here.
The EU is saying that AZ should meet there contractual agreements. If that means shipping vaccine to the EU from the UK to meet them, so be it (just like stock was shipped to the UK from Europe too).
If the UK has for example 1m vaccines on order for feb and the EU has 1m for feb too, then both should get their full order or at least a balanced amount. It is not because the UK places the order first that it is more vallid than the EU order.
If AZ is sending more to the UK then to me it makes sense that the EU is not happy about it.
Also, i work for a local council and it is horrible to have to communicate to people with underlying health problems that they will have to wait longer. Don't forget there are real people behibd the ' EU can fuck off'

Adahopper - the whole point is it depends what's in the contracts, which none of us knows.

If UK has a "first dibs" clause and EU have a "best efforts" obligation, it's unlikely best efforts will cover breaking contractual obligations with other countries.

If not he UK and EU have same obligation to supply it becomes more difficult. Does first come first served apply? Only if it's actually stated in the contract IMO

@AdaHopper

Interesting that the title of the thread says 'UK vaccine supply'. I am in an EU country and clearly the news is presented differently here. The EU is saying that AZ should meet there contractual agreements. If that means shipping vaccine to the EU from the UK to meet them, so be it (just like stock was shipped to the UK from Europe too). If the UK has for example 1m vaccines on order for feb and the EU has 1m for feb too, then both should get their full order or at least a balanced amount. It is not because the UK places the order first that it is more vallid than the EU order. If AZ is sending more to the UK then to me it makes sense that the EU is not happy about it. Also, i work for a local council and it is horrible to have to communicate to people with underlying health problems that they will have to wait longer. Don't forget there are real people behibd the ' EU can fuck off'

Exactly this! AZ oversold and are under delivering vaccines AZ should not have accepted the contract if they knew they couldn’t fulfil it

Allegedly-
I should have said

The EU can fuck right off.

Sure - but it still wouldn't be unreasonable for the EU to be pissed off at AZ. There is no 'fuck the UK' rethoric in the news here at all. Displeasure is aimed at AZ.
Other things we hear a lot here is that the EU pre-financed the development but I assume many countries / blocks did.

@AdaHopper

Sure - but it still wouldn't be unreasonable for the EU to be pissed off at AZ. There is no 'fuck the UK' rethoric in the news here at all. Displeasure is aimed at AZ. Other things we hear a lot here is that the EU pre-financed the development but I assume many countries / blocks did.

If AZ didn't tell EU about their commitment to the UK, sure. E CEO claims they knew it was a "super stretch" to hit the target. Who knows how true this is.

Fuck AZ you mean Sandybanana. I am sure if AZ was not meating the UK contract commitments you'd be mad at the too, no?

As in AZ CEO claims EU knew it was a super stretch target.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Publishing UK (Scottish) vaccine numbers will not go down well with her electorate

It will if she can make it sound as if "England's got more" and are somehow cheating the Scots out of theirs ... after all it's a song sheet she's used often enough before

Does anyone have a link to what she's actually said though? I can only find it in the Mail and it's not exactly reliable

Only in the Express, Mail and some obscure site called eminetra. Never heard of it but I'll link. Not verifiable as yet.

eminetra.co.uk/nicola-sturgeon-accused-of-taking-eus-side-in-vaccine-supply-row/253559/

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Waspnest well thats the thing isn't i thought the plan was to hopefully achieve that , if that becomes apparent its pointless and only x,y,z need the vaccine then sure send elsewhere if we have covered out risk groups.
The vaccines none are 100% and we don't know if they stop spread or how long they will Last.
[/quote]
Thats all i am saying and have said!, we can't go for HI because we don't know if its possible, so vaccinate the vulnerable groups and even younger grps if figures show they are also at risk and then divert supplies to others.

The reaction on here appears to be that me and others are saying vaccinate the Row before the UK.

@AdaHopper

Fuck AZ you mean Sandybanana. I am sure if AZ was not meating the UK contract commitments you'd be mad at the too, no?

It didn't at the start. I don't remember this much loud noise, no.

Of course AZ should meet its contractual agreements but according to the CEO, the commitment was not to a specific number. This is all about the EU screwing up, panicking and trying to blame someone else. If the situation had been reversed, there would have been a massive pile on the U.K. government from all corners. No one would have been blaming the EU for keeping what they ordered. They would be praised for getting their acts together.
I wonder what the Oxford vaccine team make of all this. They worked tremendously hard with noble intentions. What a shame it's been sullied like this.

In fact, I'm not sure if any Covid vaccine supplier has managed to meet deadlines. Pfizer certainly haven't either.

But this I mean customers have faced delays. I don't know anything about contractual deadlines obvs.

@Bluethrough one poster did before you I think was over 60's at most.
We cannot commit to give exact amounts yet until we get more real data , then I am sure we will do more. The reality is we are all pinning hopes these vaccines do what we want but it is early days.

From what I read online Germany seem determined to destroy the credibility of the AZ vaccine as effective for over 65’s.

If AZ didn't tell EU about their commitment to the UK
How on earth would it be credible for the entire EC team working on procurement to not know that the UK had already purchased some vaccine from AZ? It was all over all the media.

@Adahopper yes if true but we had issues with supply in beginning as well, but I would be angry with them and not talking of export bans to other countries who are not partial to the contract between az/ eu