Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

@MintyMabel

I didn't vote Brexit but thank fuck we left. We could have approved the vaccine and made our own agreements within the EU

Absolutely, the UK could have with A LOT of pressure not to, as was the case for the Dutch, Germans, French and Italians.

www.bild.de/politik/ausland/politik-inland/with-this-letter-by-jens-spahn-the-vaccine-disaster-in-the-eu-begann-74736986.bild.html

We would’ve paid the most and been the last in line if we had stayed with the EU

And now this in the guardian
The European commission said a new authorisation mechanism would be established to give national regulators the power to refuse vaccine exports. The development will raise concerns over the continued flow of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine for which the UK has a 40m-dose order.

Ignore the title of the link as it's wrong
www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/28/belgium-launches-investigation-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-plant

are we hoarding?

I very much doubt it, it's not loo roll. I'm guessing as soon as it's made it's tested and shipped out.

I'd be interested to know the details of the Oxford Uni/Astrazeneca contract. We know that part of the deal is that AZ produce it on a non-profit basis but it could have other clauses including UK provision in it because we also know that the UK government have been involved from quite an early stage. I'm glad the UK government are actually staying out of the row and BJ is currently not veering off-piste.

And what's the obsession with Malawi? Has Madonna joined MN?

The UK would have been in a far worse position in terms of wrath from Brussels if it had made its own deals as an EU member. There likely would have been far more pressure to 'share' UK purchased stock with the rest of the EU.

I'm not a fan of Brexit but even I can see that the UK would have gotten a lot of flack for not participating in the EU Vaccs scheme as an EU member and for making its own deals and getting stocks sooner than the rest of the Block.

What on earth is sturgeon playing at!

I wonder how quickly she would lose support if she messes up the vaccine program in any way.

I find all this ridiculous, no manufacturers of any vaccine can hold onto stock just in case they get approved. Any day a mutation can come along and render them useless.

@Bluethrough

The point you miss is that its immoral to knowingly take treatment that you don't need from someone who does need it

Who is able to establish beyond doubt that they don't need to be vaccinated?

Covid can affect you badly at any age - you will not be 100% sure unless you get the infection. So refusing a vaccine assuming you want it and are offered it on the basis of altruism is beyond unreasonable

I also expect that the UK contract with AZ is much tighter. I've worked across Europe a lot and generally their approach to contract law is quite a bit softer than ours with higher expectations of honouring the spirit of a contract rather than just the letter of it. There were a number of times when we ended up in difficulty where European partners thought they had obtained a firm commitment to something, but the contract was more vague and wishy-washy on the subject. Hearing the different interpretations of the contract here I feel that this mistake appears to have been made here too.

@JS87

The Daily Mail is now running a story that Nicola Sturgeon is going to divulge details of our vaccines stocks to the EU from next week

Can't she be prosecuted on some ground for doing this?

Can't she be prosecuted on some ground for doing this

For treason?

@trulydelicious surely she doesn't have the power to do that , Scotlands maybe but not the rest of the uk.
She should stay out anyway really , even Boris is sitting back on this one for now , waiting on all the evidence.
All this crap about stockpiling as well , we could vaccinate more its purely supply thats holding us up and it held us up in the beginning.

@bluethrough you haven't answered about herd immunity ?
Same as previous poster who suggested we only vaccinate some .
Is there science to prove we don't need this now and only certain groups should have and then we are all safe ?

Admittedly not read all the hundreds of up thread messages but given this is evidently a time sensitive medical emergency demand and supply issue - is it not simply first come first served?

Despite the lack of collective Covid risk mitigation rules adherence and hence you can't cheat or claim "exemption" from the virus as evident by our world leading per capita Covid fatalities and mass community super mutating spreading - the
UK has been instrumental in expedited vaccines research, development, approval and procurement.

As much as we still have a minority of unmasked non believers and anti vaxxers the Westminster UK wide government has been fortunately supported by world leading English research in genome sequencing and much other critical Covid pandemic science.

Given the global competition for more vaccination - would other nations offer their stocks to us if the tables were reversed? Would the EC 27 in particular be more empathetic and pragmatic to the UK?

And why if true (as now reported in UK mainstream news media) - is a region of the UK (without independent and agreed consensus authority) going against UK collective efforts in sharing vaccination data with overseas nations especially when there are no reciprocal arrangements let alone cooperation? What benefits or purpose are there to this part of the country in doing something not requested nor necessary and importantly may detrimentally impact all parts of the UK?

One could reasonably assume that Scotland's supply will be proportional to their population, so publishing it effectively reveals the UK numbers.

@donewithitalltodayandxmas

She should stay out anyway really , even Boris is sitting back on this one for now , waiting on all the evidence

Yes, it's bonkers

is it not simply first come first served?

The EU is NOT a butchers shop!

Covid can affect you badly at any age - you will not be 100% sure unless you get the infection. So refusing a vaccine assuming you want it and are offered it on the basis of altruism is beyond unreasonable

Thats not what would happen is it?

I just find the whole concept of vaccinating perfectly health young people many of whom caught Cv en masse when they went back to uni with little damage whatsoever, whilst extremely vulnerable people, just a short distance away, die or suffer in icu units, rather sick.

As for hoarding, we don't know how much vaccine the Govt has or expects to have in the very near future.

The EU ordering 3 months after the UK is only relevant if you know what the terms of the contract are.
atm the EU is saying one thing and AZ/UK another.

Blue where do you join the age line?

Pp had it very high after first four groups

I just find the whole concept of vaccinating perfectly health young people many of whom caught Cv en masse when they went back to uni with little damage whatsoever, whilst extremely vulnerable people, just a short distance away, die or suffer in icu units, rather sick

So what about us over 40s, who seem to be a high proportion of hospital admissions? DH is over 66 so will be vaccinated in band 6 (I think) as will the rest of my family (the joy of being the youngest) so I think I'll take my vaccine so I can see them without wondering if they can still give it to me!

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@bluethrough you haven't answered about herd immunity ?
Same as previous poster who suggested we only vaccinate some .
Is there science to prove we don't need this now and only certain groups should have and then we are all safe ? [/quote]
Its not answerable because we don't know the level that would have to be reached or more importantly, if we will need to re vaccinate each and every year as new strains appear, such as we do with flu, where HI is and never has been an aim.

@Bluethrough the uk have not commented on eu/ az vaccine , just there own
And we can be pretty sure we don't have supplies this is our only way out, why would we be pushing the gap between doses if we had enough , that is a bit of a gamble.
Also you haven't answered re heard immunity ? And what is your cut of age

[quote trulydelicious]@JS87

The Daily Mail is now running a story that Nicola Sturgeon is going to divulge details of our vaccines stocks to the EU from next week

Can't she be prosecuted on some ground for doing this?[/quote]
Yeah, hope she does. Publishing UK (Scottish) vaccine numbers will not go down well with her electorate. It'll likely boost the Union's cause, IMO.

@Bluethrough but at the moment is that not what all countries are trying to start with, the plan is to vaccinate all over certain age , I think thats most countries plans.
The reality is we won't of given 2 doses to our most vunerable yet , my 87 year old nan second dose is mid april

@Dongdingdong

is it not simply first come first served?

The EU is NOT a butchers shop!

TBF, in her analogy I believe AZ were the butcher shop

Well since we don't know what % is needed for herd immunity surely it makes sense that we vaccinate as many people as possible

We don't only vaccinate 95% of children against measles and not bother with the other 5 %.