Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

No.

We are no longer part of the EU. We have the worst death toll. We need to look after ourselves first.

@IcedPurple

My point is that the Europeans believe their supply was diverted to the UK, and they may have a case:

In December, the Government said that four million doses of the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University would be delivered by the end of 2020. It also said that those supplies would be imported from AstraZeneca factories in Germany and the Netherlands because British plants, which now provide the whole UK stock, were hit by delays.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/26/eus-coronavirus-jabs-may-have-ended-britain/

Our supplies won't be diverted as AZ have stated. I don't understand why they would even think it possible though especially when they haven't even met to approve the fucking vaccine yet anyway. That meeting will be on Friday.

[quote MyHeartIsNeverOnTime]@IcedPurple

My point is that the Europeans believe their supply was diverted to the UK, and they may have a case:

In December, the Government said that four million doses of the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University would be delivered by the end of 2020. It also said that those supplies would be imported from AstraZeneca factories in Germany and the Netherlands because British plants, which now provide the whole UK stock, were hit by delays.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/26/eus-coronavirus-jabs-may-have-ended-britain/[/quote]
The Telegraph article is behind a pay wall but it's been explained to you several times that just because these doses came from a factory in Europe, that doesn't mean they were 'diverted' to the UK. AZ were simply fulfilling an order to a paying customer with whom they had a contract. Were they meant to live those doses gathering dust for several months while the EU conducted its snail's pace approval procedure? One which STILL hasn't been completed as I write these words?

@MRex oh the proposed export ban, gotcha. They also said something today about wanting AZ to divert supplies to the EU from their UK plant, so I thought youo were referring to that.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4147830-A-really-interesting-calm-interview-with-the-head-of-AstraZeneca

I think the interview with the head of AZ shows that the UK are not taking vaccines meant for the EU.

Our Govt are not operating protectionist policies either. Matt Hancock has always made it clear that he wants the whole world to be vaccinated and he agrees with Oxford/AZ that the company shouldn't profit from the vaccine. The Prime Minister has agreed with him.

[quote MyHeartIsNeverOnTime]@IcedPurple

My point is that the Europeans believe their supply was diverted to the UK, and they may have a case:

In December, the Government said that four million doses of the vaccine developed by AstraZeneca and Oxford University would be delivered by the end of 2020. It also said that those supplies would be imported from AstraZeneca factories in Germany and the Netherlands because British plants, which now provide the whole UK stock, were hit by delays.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/01/26/eus-coronavirus-jabs-may-have-ended-britain/[/quote]
What case? The fact that they were produced in Germany and the Netherlands doesn't mean it belonged to Germany and the Netherlands!

No they wasted time

@IcedPurple

If it’s okay to divert European stock to the UK when there are delays in local production than why is not okay to divert UK supplies when there are delays in European supplies?

That is the crux of their argument. IMO nobody is blameless in all of this. I will be interested to see the EU/AZ contract when it is released.

[quote MyHeartIsNeverOnTime]@IcedPurple

If it’s okay to divert European stock to the UK when there are delays in local production than why is not okay to divert UK supplies when there are delays in European supplies?

That is the crux of their argument. IMO nobody is blameless in all of this. I will be interested to see the EU/AZ contract when it is released.[/quote]
FFS!

How many times do you need to be told that stocks weren't 'diverted'?

They weren't 'European stock'. They were AZ stocks and were used to fufil a contract to a paying customer.

When you buy a mobile phone made in China do you consider it 'Chinese stock'?

It’s getting nasty

That’s for sure
I don’t want Europeans to suffer
But as far as I read it we ordered first

However Stella doesn’t see it that way
‘We reject the logic of first come first served . That may work at the neighbourhood butchers but not in contracts ‘

Erm 😕

The EU are seriously furious about Brexit turning out to be a good thing for the UK, and so quickly, and on such an important matter. Never mind the fish, this is a serious problem for the EU.

I suspect, given how they actually approached the negotiations for Brexit with us, that they will not stop here and will be fighting to try and get an export ban, in whatever way they can. That is what they have laid on the table as their desired intention?

Let's hope the AZ /EU contract is as tight as it seems to be given the comments from the AZ boss.

‘Stella doesn’t see it that way
‘We reject the logic of first come first served . That may work at the neighbourhood butchers but not in contracts ‘
Wow, that's amazing. Will she try that on with Biden to get all the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines from the USA, or does she only think it's the UK that's fair game?

Well by the 'it was made here so we get first dibs' method, we shouldn't have the Pfizer vaccination as that's manufactured in Belgium!

The issue seems to be that, when we approved the AZ vaccination, the UK based manufacturing area wasn't up to speed so 4 million vaccines were taken from the EU based factories as the contract with the UK was up and running. Now, of course, the EU is close to approval they want to know where the doses that should be in the factory are and want the short fall made up.

There was a man on the radio earlier in the week who explained that the UK contract has a stipulation about how many vials are produced for the UK each week/month or whatever. The EU contract just says they want x number of vials but with no stipulation about how many are sent. So, if AZ had not 'diverted' unused vaccines from a factory in a country that couldn't actually use the vaccine at the time (because it wasn't approved), they'd have fallen foul of contract law by now providing the UK with the stipulated amount.

Basically the EU contracts teams didn't do their job properly.

Basically the EU contracts teams didn't do their job properly

Not that they will ever admit that!

The issue seems to be that, when we approved the AZ vaccination, the UK based manufacturing area wasn't up to speed so 4 million vaccines were taken from the EU based factories as the contract with the UK was up and running. Now, of course, the EU is close to approval they want to know where the doses that should be in the factory are and want the short fall made up.

Is that really the issue? There are nearly half a billion people in the EU. 4 million doses sounds like a relatively piddling amount in that context.

In my (European) country, the story in the newspapers is that the EU paid for their vaccines right after they signed the contract with AZ, so that AZ could start producing the vaccines for the EU immediately and build a lot of stock. This was done specifically to avoid the scenario that they're in now. So the EU is now asking AZ what happened to the stock that they should have been building with the money the EU paid upfront.

@LondonJax

Well by the 'it was made here so we get first dibs' method, we shouldn't have the Pfizer vaccination as that's manufactured in Belgium!

The issue seems to be that, when we approved the AZ vaccination, the UK based manufacturing area wasn't up to speed so 4 million vaccines were taken from the EU based factories as the contract with the UK was up and running. Now, of course, the EU is close to approval they want to know where the doses that should be in the factory are and want the short fall made up.

There was a man on the radio earlier in the week who explained that the UK contract has a stipulation about how many vials are produced for the UK each week/month or whatever. The EU contract just says they want x number of vials but with no stipulation about how many are sent. So, if AZ had not 'diverted' unused vaccines from a factory in a country that couldn't actually use the vaccine at the time (because it wasn't approved), they'd have fallen foul of contract law by now providing the UK with the stipulated amount.

Basically the EU contracts teams didn't do their job properly.

But where did the assumption come from that vaccines made in the EU belong to the EU and vaccines made in the UK belong to the UK? Surely the contractual agreement is just about how many vaccines are received - how the manufacturer achieves that is none of the client's concern!

No country should be vaccinating more than that until ALL the highest risk group people have been vaccinated in all countries.
But that won't happen, the rich countries will vaccinate all they can regardless of what happens in other countries. The UK wanting to do this is just the start

This would lead to some countries holding the world hostage by refusing to vaccinate those in the highest risk group until some deal or back handed is given.

Ridiculous idea.

It is also a very dangerous idea.
The 3 people who I know who have died of Covid were not in any high risk group. One was in his 40s and the other 2 just over 50.
Not everyone who has died has been over 80 or in a high risk group.
One was very fit and 40s

They backed the wrong horse. We also desperately need it here due to super strain and our deaths.

@Anno1980

But without time stipulations that is not a demand you can make. AZ can reasonably say "you'll get them when they are ready" if there was no delivery times agreed.

Over the next few days as this is ramped up, it's likely the contract will be made public.

But where did the assumption come from that vaccines made in the EU belong to the EU and vaccines made in the UK belong to the UK? Surely the contractual agreement is just about how many vaccines are received - how the manufacturer achieves that is none of the client's concern!

That's what I was wondering.

If I buy a phone from a company which has factories producing identical products in countries X and Y, I wouldn't expect to be able to insist on only getting a phone made in country X.

@Anno1980

In my (European) country, the story in the newspapers is that the EU paid for their vaccines right after they signed the contract with AZ, so that AZ could start producing the vaccines for the EU immediately and build a lot of stock. This was done specifically to avoid the scenario that they're in now. So the EU is now asking AZ what happened to the stock that they should have been building with the money the EU paid upfront.

That's a fair enough question - AZ need to have answers for why they haven't been able to produce enough to begin fulfilling the EU's order. But the fact that they have produced enough for an order that pre-dates it is irrelevant!

This is from here: www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-ceo-eu-vaccine-contract-is-not-a-commitment/

It doesn't sound like the EU have a leg to stand on....but I am sure it won't stop them trying!