Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

I don’t understand this concept of early production either. What does that mean in practice?

Anything the EU want it to

Maybe some eu countries even before this supply debacle were looking after their own national interest

TBF I wouldn't blame them, providing they do it in line with da rulez - but what they don't get to do is criticise others for doing the same

So much for the manic superstate project now that unity's falling apart, but then if the boot had been on the other foot I'm sure they'd have generously shared their vaccines with the UK ... wouldn't they??

I think AZ is aware that if they play silly buggers with the UK then Oxford will withdraw the patent for the vaccine

Would that matter? This isn't my field, but if it suited them to do so I've no doubt the EU could "arrange" their own patent for AZ at the speed of light

This isn't my field
Clearly.

if it suited them to do so I've no doubt the EU could "arrange" their own patent for AZ at the speed of light
You mean steal intellectual property. Wow. No, they can't.

@hamstersarse

I'm not knowledgeable about this but please don't make it a vaccine war.

I don’t think it’s us taking aggressive action.

I actually think Brexiteer Boris has been remarkably restrained, given the rhetoric from the EU

Very true.

EU are annoyed that the first thing we aren't tied to them with has gone well for us.

Even more galling for them when they've had our cases and death rates to beat us with because they are bad. But over this Boris has done well.

And credit where credit is due.

@JS87

I'm not that worried about the AZ vaccine. With 100 million doses I think even if some went to EU we would still have plenty, especially with Moderna and possibly Johnsen and Johnsen delivery from the spring. However, I'm concerned that if the EU block export of pfizer doses to retaliate then we might not be able to deliver the second dose at 12 weeks to people?

Maybe if that too happen then Boris should contact Biden and remind him of our special relationship. Also that American Democrats were so concerned with law breaking and the good Friday agreements maybe they can ship supply from USA for the UK and roi if eu withheld phizer stock we brought ordered paid for and approved before the EU.

Seeing the large quantities of Moderna that have come our way, that sounds like a stellar idea,

I’m a remained but tend to agree with they can forget it and they would not do it for us if roles were reversed

Vaccine nationalism is alive and kickin on this thread!

Thankfully, Johnson isn't playing your game.

We have years of fighting Cv, vaccine supply will ebb ebb and flow, Cv will mutate, new vaccines will have to be produced & given to vast numbers of people around the world.

Around the world and europe we should be aiming to vaccinate the most at risk of death (before anyone else) and that includes the elderly in Spain Italy etc as well as our own at risk groups.

Around the world and europe we should be aiming to vaccinate the most at risk of death (before anyone else) and that includes the elderly in Spain Italy etc as well as our own at risk groups.

However, as it seems the U.K. is particularly beset by the more transmissible 'Kent' variant, there is an argument that it's in everyone's interests to crack on with all haste here.

Succinct summary of why the EU fucked up basically:

Over the summer, under Mrs von der Leyen and the Commission’s health chief, the Cypriot Stella Kyriakides, the EU made a series of devastating strategic errors. It ordered 300 million doses of a vaccine manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline-Sanofi, a drug that then stumbled in trials.

It spent the summer haggling over the price for the Pfizer/BioNTech jab, ordering sizeable shipments only in November.

Britain, meanwhile, ordered 40 million doses of the same vaccine in July; America put in for 600 million.

Disgracefully, the EU has still not approved the ‘game-changing’ Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine — which is both cheap and can be stored in a standard refrigerator.

They took too long approving the Astrazenca vaccine, instead putting all their eggs in two baskets and Macron was heavily pushing for the French vaccine which won't be ready until end of this year!

Pfizer having to upgrade their production facilities in Belgium aswell.

Meanwhile we are cracking on and Bojo is already starting discussions with Johnson and Johnson on the one jab vaccine ..again getting in their first. Bet you mt house the EU will be yet again months behind.

Because of all the EU issues, countries like Germany basically splinting off and buying vaccines anyway, making a mockery of the whole point of being an EU member.

So there you have it, had we still been in the EU we would be so much worse off right now, be so far behind in getting out of this quickly. Meanwhile we're cracking on and there you can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel.

This is a great example that leave voters can now point oo as to why many of them wanted to leave!!

We have taken back control, we determine our fate and thank god Bojo is doing the right thing in getting orders in for mutilated of vaccines, the funding and now already looking to add another vaccine to the list.

Covid is destroying our economy more than Brexit

We do need to vaccinate the world, but not because of travel or trade. If Covid is allowed to spread unchecked in other countries it will mutate. If it mutates to evade our vaccine protection it’ll eventually get transferred back to the UK and we’ll be back at square one with infection running rampant.

It's both.

Advanced economies with international linkages have the most to gain from global collaboration on vaccine access and distribution

A new study commissioned by the ICC Research Foundation has found that the global economy stands to lose as much as $9.2 trillion if governments fail to ensure developing economy access to COVID-19 vaccines, as much as half of which would fall on advanced economies.

iccwbo.org/media-wall/news-speeches/study-shows-vaccine-nationalism-could-cost-rich-countries-us4-5-trillion/

And as you point out, allowing the virus to rage in other countries while we 'look after our own' will also massively increase the chances of new variants, any one of which could evade the vaccines that are being rolled out now. What a tragic waste that would be.

I can't comment much on the current row with the EU because I don't really understand it, but the whole thing is unseemly. Someone upthread said the UK has contributed £500M+ to covax and the EU has contributed 500M euros? Both of these figures are peanuts compared with what we stand to lose if we don't get a handle on this.

Covax currently has a shortfall of about $28BN which sounds like a lot but is still peanuts compared with what we stand to lose. It's about twice what that dildo woman was given for our shitty ineffective test and trace system.

If wealthy countries chipped in properly to raise that money we could actually vaccinate 20% of the population of all countries. It would be a very wise investment.

We shouldn't. They can get stuffed. After all their shitty attitude.

@cyclingmad

Succinct summary of why the EU fucked up basically:

Over the summer, under Mrs von der Leyen and the Commission’s health chief, the Cypriot Stella Kyriakides, the EU made a series of devastating strategic errors. It ordered 300 million doses of a vaccine manufactured by GlaxoSmithKline-Sanofi, a drug that then stumbled in trials.

It spent the summer haggling over the price for the Pfizer/BioNTech jab, ordering sizeable shipments only in November.

Britain, meanwhile, ordered 40 million doses of the same vaccine in July; America put in for 600 million.

Disgracefully, the EU has still not approved the ‘game-changing’ Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine — which is both cheap and can be stored in a standard refrigerator.

They took too long approving the Astrazenca vaccine, instead putting all their eggs in two baskets and Macron was heavily pushing for the French vaccine which won't be ready until end of this year!

Pfizer having to upgrade their production facilities in Belgium aswell.

Meanwhile we are cracking on and Bojo is already starting discussions with Johnson and Johnson on the one jab vaccine ..again getting in their first. Bet you mt house the EU will be yet again months behind.

Because of all the EU issues, countries like Germany basically splinting off and buying vaccines anyway, making a mockery of the whole point of being an EU member.

So there you have it, had we still been in the EU we would be so much worse off right now, be so far behind in getting out of this quickly. Meanwhile we're cracking on and there you can almost see the light at the end of the tunnel.

This is a great example that leave voters can now point oo as to why many of them wanted to leave!!

We have taken back control, we determine our fate and thank god Bojo is doing the right thing in getting orders in for mutilated of vaccines, the funding and now already looking to add another vaccine to the list.

Covid is destroying our economy more than Brexit

Who are Germany buying off? Can they have priority over phizer as its usa and German partnership?

Will Hungary face any punishment approving the Russian vaccine which seems not extreme given Russian covid rates quite high and they were 1st with the vaccine.

@MRex

This isn't my field Clearly.

if it suited them to do so I've no doubt the EU could "arrange" their own patent for AZ at the speed of light
You mean steal intellectual property. Wow. No, they can't.

Sorry @MRex if this has been asked before (or if I should know it!) but can I ask does Oxford own the IP rights for the vaccine? The way they talk it’s a collaboration / partnership (although I know Oxford where very far advanced in their research of coronavirus when this pandemic hit)

This isn't my field, but if it suited them to do so I've no doubt the EU could "arrange" their own patent for AZ at the speed of light
Oxford owns the formula for the AZ vaccine. AZ is just the manufacturer. When you have a patent it means you created something that belongs exclusively to you and nobody else can produce it without your permission. So AZ can only produce the Oxford vaccine with Oxford’s permission. It’s not possible for the EU to arrange another patent for the vaccine - it’s already been patented by Oxford.

I agree with all thos ewho say we should be pouring money into Covax. It is both the right thing to be supporting vaccine distribution in the developing world, and it is the pragmatic one because of the risk of new variants developign in unvaccinated communities.

The EU is not the developing world. I do not see why we should be supporting the EU out of a hole caused by their own administrative ineptitude. The one exception is I can see a pragmatic argument for selling - at cost, not profit - to the ROI, because of the extent of cross-border travel across the island of Ireland.

I agree @TooMuchYarn. Our vaccination programme is well advanced.

It's people's lives at stake. The decent thing to do would be to vaccinate our most vulnerable groups and then agree to divert 50% of our vaccine supplies to the EU/developing countries until there is enough supply for everyone. We would still finish vaccinating everyone in the UK on good time but, meanwhile, the most vulnerable in other counties would also be given some protection.

The death of a grandparent or other loved one is no less tragic in Italy or South Africa then it is in the UK.

if it suited them to do so I've no doubt the EU could "arrange" their own patent for AZ at the speed of light
You mean steal intellectual property. Wow. No, they can't

Can't or won't ... ?

A very different regime of course, but the Chinese have been doing it for years

Thanks for the explanation @Glenchase, didn’t realise AZ were only the manufacturer.

I don’t suppose anyone knows where the Johnson & Johnson vaccine will be produced. If in EU (I think it is developed by the Belgium arm of J&J, this row may get in the way of supply)

I hear what everyone is saying that the vaccine delivery absolutely must be a global effort. But CV is absolutely raging here. Surely it makes sense to get some sort of control here and then ship out to developing countries. I wouldn’t say the EU should be top of that list!

Given the UK factories are likely to be able to produce 300 million doses by the end of the year, this seems a realistic goal.

I think the EU dealt with the contract negotiations like a business deal (getting the vaccine for the cheapest possible price) rather than recognising it was speed that was needed given lots of countries were snapping up vaccines in development. I must admit, I was one that criticised Bojo at the time (it isn’t hard to criticise him!) but in hindsight it was absolutely the right thing to do. Secure the vaccine at any cost, cos if you vaccinate your population get out of lockdown and get your economy moving, that will repay your vaccine investment.

The language coming out of Germany is very very unpleasant and strikes of fear their voters will realise what a complete disaster this has been. Easier to blame us than reflect on their own actions.

I agree we should share our dose with Europe, once every person in the UK that wants the vaccine is vaccinated!
We sort our own out for once before we help others

I'm on the fence, but agree with the below;

I don't think it's right that the UK - or any other country - should be allowed to vaccinate more than than their highest priority groups.
Approx 30% of the population of the EU/EEA and the UK is either over 60 years old or has one of the underlying conditions associated with COVID-19 risk.
No country should be vaccinating more than that until ALL the highest risk group people have been vaccinated in all countries.
But that won't happen, the rich countries will vaccinate all they can regardless of what happens in other countries. The UK wanting to do this is just the start.

The WHO has also noted that if vaccines are not distributed evenly then there will be more virus mutations.

@MessAllOver

I agree *@TooMuchYarn*. Our vaccination programme is well advanced.

It's people's lives at stake. The decent thing to do would be to vaccinate our most vulnerable groups and then agree to divert 50% of our vaccine supplies to the EU/developing countries until there is enough supply for everyone. We would still finish vaccinating everyone in the UK on good time but, meanwhile, the most vulnerable in other counties would also be given some protection.

The death of a grandparent or other loved one is no less tragic in Italy or South Africa then it is in the UK.

But that absolutely does not fit with the narrative the government have told us right from the beginning that everyone is at risk of covid (long covid) etc., we can’t afford to vaccinate the world if are economy isn’t moving and to get out of lockdown, a lot more people want to be vaccinated outside the top 9 priority groups

@MessAllOver Ridiculous. Would you be happy to give 50% of your salary to help Italian or South African pensioners? Thought not....

essentially my concern was unnecessary levels of bureaucracy, trying to regulate everything in a uniform way for countries with vastly different demographics, and a frustration that the UK would generally 'play fair' whilst other countries would ignore the rules with no penalty. All of these issues seem to be highlighted at the moment.

I was also a Leave voter. This incident highlights the inefficiency and bureaucracy of the EU and will ultimately show its unaccountability too. It has also shown their bullying instincts - as the Greeks are all too familiar with.

@Crazycatlady83 - yes, here it is: "WO2012172277 SIMIAN ADENOVIRUS AND HYBRID ADENOVIRAL VECTORS" patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2012172277&_cid=P10-KKFUVI-16149-1.
It was first patented in the UK in 2011, later for international patent in other countries such as USA, Japan etc.