Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

It’s Mess who is suggesting everyone not in group 4 waits longer as she is 30 ish and would prefer 80s plus in Malawi to get it first.

I’m 47 I will wait for my turn in U.K. programme but I do not want it diverted

People who do are virtue signalling and generally very low risk

Easy to opt others up if it doesn’t affect you

@IcedPurple. Nope, there's a fair bit of glee...

Early bird catches the worms
You snooze, you lose
Any vaccine exported to EU should be put on the refrigerated lorries containing Scottish fish
They can naff off though lol, why should we be punished for being efficient?!
They can get stuffed. After all their shitty attitude.

A lovely way to talk about people's lives....

It is okay to say that, but posters are struggling to contain their glee at the thought of vulnerable Europeans dying so they can score political points. Not unlike the daily Mail readers who are thrilled when babies die in the channel.

I find this sort of post really really sad. Just shows how divisive our politics are right now.
That someone can think this of others just because they have a different view to their own.

I really hope that at some point in the future, we can be less scathing of people who hold a different view to theirs and make an attempt to understand why that other holds a different view to ourselves, and that it is not always for bad (murderous) reasons

[quote MessAllOver]@IcedPurple. Nope, there's a fair bit of glee...

Early bird catches the worms
You snooze, you lose
Any vaccine exported to EU should be put on the refrigerated lorries containing Scottish fish
They can naff off though lol, why should we be punished for being efficient?!
They can get stuffed. After all their shitty attitude.

A lovely way to talk about people's lives....[/quote]
No, they're talking about the spectacular mess the EU has made of all this.

They're the ones responsible for their citizens. Not Britain. However much you try to make it so.

@alreadytaken - astrazeneca set up cold chain supply logistics on a continental basis; each continent can expand but sending supplies between continents would be very much more expensive and need special planning.
Here are some pretty pictures of it: "COVID-19 visual resources" www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/covid-19-media.html.

Anyone interested in what has been made clear about distribution can note the bit on the left, that the UK additional supply is only available from April. We are not in April.

Thank god we left at just the right time- pure luck, but I’ll take it.

It doesn’t make brexit right, but at the moment and with regards to the vaccine it does. We should count our lucky stars that something has actually gone right for the UK

@IcedPurple

Yes. Lots of glee on this thread about the prospect of vulnerable "foreigners" being left unvaccinated while we whizz through our population.

There is zero 'glee' about this apart from in your own head.

Do you think European govts are going to send vaccines to Malawi once their over 50s have been vaccinated?

Any government is elected and responsible for the self interest of its population first. Even democratic ones. You are never going to get too far away from that point.

However i also think that the national interest doesn't begin and end at our borders. You can argue the case to help others as part of your national interest.

I also think that the population demographics of the EU and Malawi differ slightly so the comparison is between the two is unfair. I also think geography is relevant here too. Does helping the EU help the UK? Well in terms of the Republic of Ireland it certainly does. It helps in terms of where we trade most.

From a longer term point of view its worth us helping Malawi as soon as we can.

No, they're talking about the spectacular mess the EU has made of all this.

They're the ones responsible for their citizens. Not Britain. However much you try to make it so.

This is absolutely true, and any 'glee' is from how they have now somehow tried to cover up their incompetence on very thing that Brexit was about (unnecessary bureaucracy etc) and blame AZ and the UK

It is just very bad sportsmanship and not a good look, let's face it.

@MarshaBradyo. It's not "virtue-signalling". Virtue-signalling is making a statement because you think it will meet with approval rather than because you actually believe in it.

I actually do believe that the over 80s should be vaccinated before healthy young people, no matter where they live...and this belief certainly hasn't met with much approval on here .

'Virtue-signalling' is a lazy comeback.

@MessAllOver

It is okay to say that, but posters are struggling to contain their glee at the thought of vulnerable Europeans dying so they can score political points. Not unlike the daily Mail readers who are thrilled when babies die in the channel.

Yes. Lots of glee on this thread about the prospect of vulnerable "foreigners" being left unvaccinated while we whizz through our population.

No glee here, I don't want anyone to be left unvaccinated. However, I will choose to look after me and my family over people I don't know, wherever they are from.

If you think that people in the EU or Malawi wouldn't do the same then you're deluded.

I actually do believe that the over 80s should be vaccinated before healthy young people, no matter where they live...and this belief certainly hasn't met with much approval on here

Should we vaccinate over 80s in certain countries before we do over 80s here? What about healthy young people who work in high risk industries?

Mess maybe because it’s so easy to say when you have very little to lose.

And you are offering up the 55 year old who will end up in ICU with no detriment to you.

It carries very little weight. With all this I can only take people who offer themselves up for the impact, not others. It’s a recurring theme on here.

Any government is elected and responsible for the self interest of its population first. Even democratic ones. You are never going to get too far away from that point.

Exactly & agree that we should help others once we have helped ourselves. we need to vaccinate a high proportion of the population to protect the vulnerable as the vaccine is not 100%.

Should we vaccinate over 80s in certain countries before we do over 80s here?

I specifically gave my view on that question upthread.

I can't filter posts & obvs missed it. What about my second point?

This is absolutely true, and any 'glee' is from how they have now somehow tried to cover up their incompetence on very thing that Brexit was about (unnecessary bureaucracy etc) and blame AZ and the UK

Brexit was about many things.

It wasn't just about beaucreacy.

Its also disengenous to say the uk would have to had to abide by that centralised purchasing and approval. If the uk had acted unilaterally it would have been more of an incentive for others in the EU to have done the same. The uk leaving meant it was easier for the eu to apply pressure to make countries take part in centralised purchasing. It changed the dynamics of the bloc and the influence the commission had.

If the uk had been in the eu still its highly possible that orders would have been placed earlier and production started earlier in EU plants because more EU countries had acted unilaterally.

Its a complex subject. And ive said before that i thought we got benefits from the EU in other ways, which in the longer term we will feel rather than in the immediate way we are experiencing with this particular crisis.

I think it probably shows that national governments are better at responding faster to crisis but i think in terms of long term policy acting as a bloc has greater benefit.

I think both the EU and UK would do well to learn the lessons we can from this on that score.

@QuentinInQuarantino

The EU messed up spectacularly on this. It's OK to say that.

It is okay to say that, but posters are struggling to contain their glee at the thought of vulnerable Europeans dying so they can score political points. Not unlike the daily Mail readers who are thrilled when babies die in the channel.

And now it’s getting ridiculous. No one here is “rubbing their hands in glee”. I can see this argument will go the same way as it has with restrictions, where the common insults thrown out are “frothing, wetting themselves etc”.

We’re finally on course to start getting out of the restrictions, so now new reasons for insults need to be found.

So, feel free to refuse your vaccine and therefore take the increased risk of passing the virus onto someone else. Altruism at its finest 🤦🏻‍♀️

The UK is likely to distribute excess stock to help other countries - but is right in working through its population first. We can’t scream and shout at the Government that lockdown is wrong/ruining lives/get us out of this mess - and then scream and shout that the government is wrong to have a procedure in place to try and do that!

@marbellamarc. Yes, of course. That is a factor which makes them more vulnerable. Why do you think we've been vaccinating healthcare workers?

What about other countries’ different vaccination priorities? So we nobly pass our vaccines to a country which prioritises government officials and actors (eg Poland - see Guardian article).

@MessAllOver I wasn't just referring to healthcare workers?

Also on the Malawi question, who is manufacturing vaccine and paying for vaccine comes into play here.

The UK is better placed to help places which dont have their own capability to make or fully fund vaccination of the whole population, if they look after their own population and economy first.

Its a harsh reality but one that does exist.

@MarshaBradyo

Furries you’ve gone off on one. It’s not me suggesting it I’m replying to 30 year old. You need to scroll back.

My bad, I meant to tag the original post from @MessAllOver.

Sorry @MarshaBradyo - I tagged your response by mistake, my response was definitely not aimed at you.

@quentininquaritino nothing to do with only being british but the science supports the whole adult population that can in order to hopefully protect all , which is what every country wants.
If we can get out economy back we can maybe help less rich countries who need the vaccine.
But it would be counter productive to mess with our regime now , our opening depends on it and is based on science.
We have given money to covax and maybe we can donate more if we ever get our economy up and running ,

I see rationality and practicality has escaped much of this thread though.

Its just a rather simplistic uk v EU v malawi instead of thinking of how we connect or how things work (as opposed to how people think they work or idealism).

The UK is better placed to help places which dont have their own capability to make or fully fund vaccination of the whole population, if they look after their own population and economy first.

100%, it's the put your oxygen mask on & then help others. I don't see the science behind only vaccinating some of the population.