Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

@Bluethrough

*They probably get hot and bothered about anti vaxxers too8

no argument, so divert to more bollox

How old are you and are you opting out?

Talking of avoidance

you know i'm right, so you divert to an argument thats bollox.

No, you're not right. If you were you'd have answered my question.

You don't actually live your life worrying about more needy people in Berlin, do you?

Do you believe the vaccination priority list should be abandoned and we have a free for all?

How have you made that leap?

Blue you do realise 45 year olds aren’t being vaccinated right now?

@IcedPurple

Of course but do you think at 45yo and healthy you should be getting vaccinated right now?

But healthy 45 year olds aren't getting vaccinated right now, are they? They'll have to wait until the priority groups have been done.

Strawman argument.

Afraid no, its exactly the same.

UK wishes to vaccinate its young and healthy and in doing so is prepared to see vulnerable people in europe die.

Why else have we drawn a line in the sand and said we want our 100m AZ doses first.

*Afraid no, its exactly the same.

UK wishes to vaccinate its young and healthy and in doing so is prepared to see vulnerable people in europe die.

Why else have we drawn a line in the sand and said we want our 100m AZ doses first.*

Afraid what? What are you going on about?

Healthy 45 year olds aren't being vaccinated now and won't be for some time. The EU screwed up the vaccine procurement and are trying to blame Britain and AZ. That's on them. Britain is not responsible for them.

@Bluethrough

I thought that. I'm 45 with no health conditions that I'm aware of and I'll be having the vaccine if it ever gets to my turn! I'm obviously a very selfish individual as I want my life back!

Of course but do you think at 45yo and healthy you should be getting vaccinated right now?

Do you believe the vaccination priority list should be abandoned and we have a free for all?
Perhaps the wealthy can jump the queue and buy their lives back?

You're talking rubbish as I'm not being vaccinated now. However, when I am offered it I will have it regardless of whether the rest of the world has been vaccinated. They're not going to say 'Oh Pink doesn't want her vaccine, lets send it to Europe instead' are they?

The vaccine would seem a very good place to draw the line. Since it's a common response to a sudden, common threat facing us equally. Then at least all survivors in all nations can start rebuilding their lives with whatever resources are available to them (and we in this country will have more resources than most). Also, it's relatively simple compared to other aid schemes...a jab in the arm and a clear benefit. Although the logistics of rollout can be complex, there is no complicated ongoing aid programme required, where the benefits are often lost completely due to corruption or inadequate local infrastructure.

its immoral to knowingly take treatment that you don't need from someone who does need it

Who are you to says who needs the vaccine or not? Or what the best vaccine strategy is? You don’t know peoples individual circumstances. Also there is still risk to each age group but it decreases for younger people.

We have the JCVI that is making these calls for us as a nation - focused on our collective health. Vaccination of lower risk groups (note it’s about risk not a black and white if you’re under X age you don’t need it) will help protect vulnerable groups in all age brackets and hopefully allow us to return to some normality. Which is what the British public want.

If you want to lobby the JCVI or set up a group to forgo vaccines feel free.

I think Boris could do a bit of negotiations and ask the EU, now about these little time delays at customs,

Iced and others on malaria.
A small point, but control of hatching areas by simple sprays of water margins and clearing stagnant water reduces the quantity of the mosquitos that hatch.

We did this over our company compounds in Iran under government instructions, it does not rely only on research money.

UK wishes to vaccinate its young and healthy and in doing so is prepared to see vulnerable people in europe die.

Have you refused all vaccines or refused them for your dc? Loads of deaths globally because of lack of vaccines pre Covid.

@marbellamarc

Do you believe the vaccination priority list should be abandoned and we have a free for all?

How have you made that leap?

You want the UK low risk categories to be vaccinated ahead of v high risk people in europe, many will then die but so long as our 18/20y.o's get vaccinated first who cares.

Vaccinationalism at its finest.

*JVCI that should be

Ha ha. I’d bet a Lottery jackpot win that not one single European would be nobly passing on having the vaccine because there might be a needier person in Pontefract.

The problem is the EU are probably not going to approve AZ for the more vulnerable groups, so it will probably go to the young and healthy in the EU. You have no guarantees of who your vaccine would go to.

You want the UK low risk categories to be vaccinated ahead of v high risk people in europe, many will then die but so long as our 18/20y.o's get vaccinated first who cares.

You want the elderly & vulnerable to be more at risk in the UK because not vaccinating all of the population increases risk?

Stupidity at its finest.

*You want the UK low risk categories to be vaccinated ahead of v high risk people in europe, many will then die but so long as our 18/20y.o's get vaccinated first who cares.

Vaccinationalism at its finest.*

Give over.

What do you think Europe is going to do with vaccines, whenever their ponderous procurement process gets around to it? They're going to vaccinate all their adult population as soon as possible, including healthy young adults. They're not going to be worrying overmuch about people in Brazil or Cambodia. They're going to be looking after themselves first. Why should Britain not do otherwise? The EU consists of some of the richest countries in the world. Why are you treating it like a charity case?

@marbellamarc

UK wishes to vaccinate its young and healthy and in doing so is prepared to see vulnerable people in europe die.

Have you refused all vaccines or refused them for your dc? Loads of deaths globally because of lack of vaccines pre Covid.

This is an argument about CV vaccines & the here and now, not the wests inaction on malaria, famine, war or vaccinations.

Start a thread on lack vaccines to the developing world?

Your the one using the moral argument?!

What do you think Europe is going to do with vaccines, whenever their ponderous procurement process gets around to it? They're going to vaccinate all their adult population as soon as possible, including healthy young adults. They're not going to be worrying overmuch about people in Brazil or Cambodia. They're going to be looking after themselves first. Why should Britain not do otherwise?

So because the EU might behave badly, we must do so too.

I see where you are coming from now.

@Bluethrough

What do you think Europe is going to do with vaccines, whenever their ponderous procurement process gets around to it? They're going to vaccinate all their adult population as soon as possible, including healthy young adults. They're not going to be worrying overmuch about people in Brazil or Cambodia. They're going to be looking after themselves first. Why should Britain not do otherwise?

So because the EU might behave badly, we must do so too.

I see where you are coming from now.

I can't see where you're coming from as you're talking a load of nonsense.

The EU is not a charity.

@Bluethrough why are you ignoring the fact that for vaccination to be as effective as possible the majority of the population have to be vaccinated?

For measles it's 95%, polio 80% They don't know what % they need yet for Covid.

@DenisetheMenace

Yesterday 15:09 MyHeartIsNeverOnTime

Possibly because the first 3-4 million doses of the vaccine used here were diverted from European factories. It’s been reported multiple times it’s the Telegraph and the Independent, but seems to have been conveniently forgotten in the current row.“

Irrelevant really when the vaccine hadn’t yet been approved in the EU. Still hasn’t.

The first 3-4million doses were not diverted from anywhere. They were manufactured in the EU and shipped to the U.K. to meet a contract between the U.K. and AZ. At the time of shipping, nothing that I have seen about the EU/AZ contract means that those EU manufactured doses belonged to anyone other than AZ to do with as they pleased. Why would they store them in a warehouse, on the assumption that the EU would eventually get around to approving the vaccine, when they were immediately contractually obliged to fulfil the U.K. order? It makes no sense from a business or moral perspective.

I read this again this morning and still can’t believe the audacity of it. Unbelievable!

In a withering statement, Stella Kyriakides said the UK should not earn any advantage from signing a contract with AstraZeneca three months before the EU’s executive branch put pen to paper.

“We reject the logic of first come, first served,” the commissioner said. “That may work in a butcher’s shop but not in contracts and not in our advanced purchase agreements.”

(Via The Guardian)