Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

274 pregnant or recently pregnant women have gone into ICU with covid in the UK according to ICNARC.

I didn’t know that - terrible.

I bet @MessAllOver will be first in line for the vaccine when they get the call

@3asAbird excellent post. I

Will there be an issue though with procurement of the Pfizer vaccine for the second doses meant to be happening from March onwards? The Pfizer one as far as I am aware is produced in Belgium - thought the EU had spoken about requiring permits for vaccines to be exported to non-EU countries and that there was some concern about them blocking the export? With 2nd doses already being at 12 weeks, there is no time really for delay.

It’s not a case of EU trying to steal our vaccines. AZ signed a contract selling millions of vaccines to the EU and the EU want them to honour the contract. AZ have said they will once all the approvals have gone through as at the moment they can send to people who will get it straight away. EU want the vaccines there so they can get going straight away when approvals have all gone through. Both sides have valid points. AZ has received plenty of EU funding throughout the years its not some little Britain primed pharmaceutical factory.

@Dongdingdong. I've already said I don't intend having it until much later on . These are not empty words. I see no particular rush from my own perspective to be vaccinated. I'm keen for my parents, who are elderly and at risk, to be vaccinated but I'm not afraid for myself. There is a tiny risk, yes, but life brings many risks.

Perhaps that's why I think the elderly in other countries should be vaccinated first. I am scared of the risks for my father in particular. When he is vaccinated, it will bring me immense peace of mind. That peace of mind ought to be available to all elderly and vulnerable people and their loved ones as soon as possible.

Everyone crowing over the EU's failure (and they have failed abjectly, no question about that) should remember that the consequence will be that more people will die.

As part of the bigger picture, the longer lockdown rages on, the more people that will die for reasons here other than covid, the more jobs that will be lost, plunging more people into poverty, the more education children will have missed- which will overwhelmingly affect the poorest children. Yes it's the same everywhere, but we haven't done anything deviant to secure a supply, we haven't been dishonest, lied, cheated, or bribed. Are you also expecting countries such as the US to donate some vaccines, or is it just us who have actually been treated like shit by the EU over this.

@Backbee. I answered your question upthread.

@MessAllOver I agree with you. Ok there are no guarantees but my chances are much better than an 80 year old in another country.

@MessAllOver I see no particular rush from my own perspective to be vaccinated.
Ah, I see the issue. One of the things with viruses is that they are passed from person to person, while vaccines are not 100% effective and can't be used by some people e.g. pregnant women. What that means is that each person who chooses not to vaccinate risks catching covid and then passing it on to someone vulnerable. You believe you'll be ok, great, but it's important to consider the impact on other people in our society who are more vulnerable than you are. They don't matter less than the 80yo in Brazil just because you're less aware of them.
By the way, Brazil have received vaccines from India: m.timesofindia.com/world/rest-of-world/brazilian-prez-bolsonaro-invokes-ramayana-thanks-india-for-covid-19-vaccine-supply/amp_articleshow/80417253.cms as well as China (not sure I would personally trust sinovac, but that's up to their regulator). Other countries are getting vaccines even if slowly: look at the death rates and hospitalisations in the UK, read again the points about why we should vaccinate in the UK, there are good reasons why you should not decline to be vaccinated.

I see no particular rush from my own perspective to be vaccinated. I'm keen for my parents, who are elderly and at risk, to be vaccinated but I'm not afraid for myself. There is a tiny risk, yes, but life brings many risks.

But the vaccine doesn't mean zero death for those that have had it so the more people with the vaccination in a population the better. Whilst you wait for yours are you happy to continue living in lockdown?

Whilst you wait for yours are you happy to continue living in lockdown?

I think people that are early 30s or whatever are fine as risk is so low. They don’t mind if age 55 end up in ICU. Unlikely to be them.

Not all 30 year olds just ones in thread saying wait until 85 year olds are done in world

@MessAllOver well yes, but not everyone who is vulnerable and would benefit immensely from normal life resuming for their health and in some cases lives, is vulnerable to covid and so wouldn't be worthy to you. Leaving us stuck in a prolonged lockdown, with arguably those who had sacrificed the most suffering even more. That might be a selfish view, I don't really care. Having had friends been handed death sentences because of delayed treatments, suicides amongst some demographics rising sharply, and the economy which funds nice thing like the NHS heading further down into the shitter which will immensely affect us all; although it would be nice to share the vaccines I don't think it's bad we think of ourselves. Is anyone demanding the US share their vaccines?

I think people that are early 30s or whatever are fine as risk is so low.

It's about the risk to others though not the 30 yr old.

Everyone crowing over the EU's failure (and they have failed abjectly, no question about that) should remember that the consequence will be that more people will die.

The UK locked down late cos we were slow. Nothing stopped us locking down earlier.

Its hardly as if the uk have played a blinder throughout on our covid policy...

@marbellamarc

I think people that are early 30s or whatever are fine as risk is so low.

It's about the risk to others though not the 30 yr old.

I don’t agree with it but pp is judging from personal risk alone

Nothing stopped us locking down earlier

When would you have done it?

it's important to consider the impact on other people in our society who are more vulnerable than you are

But at that point, the "known vulnerable" will mostly have been vaccinated. The question is then whether to vaccinate the "known vulnerable" living in fear elsewhere or concentrate on the (very few) unknown vulnerable by vaccinating the rest of the general population. More deaths are prevented by focusing on the highest risk groups.

I don’t agree with it but pp is judging from personal risk alone

That's what I don't understand though unless she is happy to stay in lockdown.

@MessAllOver

it's important to consider the impact on other people in our society who are more vulnerable than you are

But at that point, the "known vulnerable" will mostly have been vaccinated. The question is then whether to vaccinate the "known vulnerable" living in fear elsewhere or concentrate on the (very few) unknown vulnerable by vaccinating the rest of the general population. More deaths are prevented by focusing on the highest risk groups.

What age are you asking to delay again?

But at that point, the "known vulnerable" will mostly have been vaccinated

But the people who are vaccinated can still die.

@PilatesPeach

Will there be an issue though with procurement of the Pfizer vaccine for the second doses meant to be happening from March onwards? The Pfizer one as far as I am aware is produced in Belgium - thought the EU had spoken about requiring permits for vaccines to be exported to non-EU countries and that there was some concern about them blocking the export? With 2nd doses already being at 12 weeks, there is no time really for delay.

What I don't understand and please someone correct me if I am wrong

The British government do not own the Oxford astrazeneca vaccine the university combined with swedish company do.
Components of the vaccine are made in 2 factories within Europe but the final compete manufactured product is made within the UK predominantly for the UK orders as their policy was to manufacturers the vaccines on every continent to make delivery easier.
I thought it was also made in India yet EU not demanding India send stock.

Phizer is a part German company however not sure government owned.
Its a private company.
How could they the EU withhold phizer a drug they don't own hostage forcing that company to break its contract with UK in exchange for Oxford a totally different vaccine also not state owned by EU or UK.
Its not theirs to withhold.
Its just manufactured on Belgium a EU state Belgium or the EU have no ownership over both vaccine brands private separate companies do.
I had no idea Belgium made so many drugs also the Netherlands.
Surely these threats will put off other companies wanting to set up within EU if they threaten hostage of products that are not theres.
I know there's other vaccines in the pipeline later in the year example Johnson and Johnson where will they be made and imported from?

I assume phizer could send stock from North America if EU kept our 2nr doses hostage.

All this drama won't ensure they get their vaccines any quicker.
Rumoured 2month delay.
Their actions must concern all vaccine companies.
Why have they not approved Oxford?

Europeans don’t do queues. 😂

Europeans don’t do queues. 😂

🤣🤣🤣

^The British government do not own the Oxford astrazeneca vaccine the university combined with swedish company do.
Components of the vaccine are made in 2 factories within Europe but the final compete manufactured product is made within the UK predominantly for the UK orders as their policy was to manufacturers the vaccines on every continent to make delivery easier.^
I thought it was also made in India yet EU not demanding India send stock.

If i make a list of all the reasons why the uk not others, my son wont be ready for zoom registration.

They are all political rather than contractual.