Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

@MarshaBradyo I've not posted about their share price before, but yes, it has dropped over the last few days. But pricewise their stock is so much more than Pfizer etc

The EU haven't even approved the Oxford vaccine for use yet -- they haven't got a leg to stand on!

[quote usuallydormant]@Wildswim I have read Stella Kyriakides's statement and she is not talking about the UK but AZ. She mentions the location of the factory in the UK, she doesn't accuse the UK of anything. Same with the 8% thing, nothing I read was about the UK but AZ. If you have links, do let me know as I agree, that would not be acceptable. Haven't seen the German MP thing but I'm sure they have their shitstirrers like every other country.

AZ is not the UK, it's not helpful to conflate them.[/quote]
OK. I'll look at the Stella quote - it was a broadcast I watched, not read - but I thought it definitely came across as a threat to the UK.

Also, the Belgian Prime minister said that we were being treated like guinea pigs in the UK and that the EU was conducting 'extra tests' to make sure the Oxford vaccine was safe.

[quote SwimmingOnEggshells]@MarshaBradyo I've not posted about their share price before, but yes, it has dropped over the last few days. But pricewise their stock is so much more than Pfizer etc[/quote]
It was another poster who was really down on AZ / Oz vaccine and said share price was tanking to reflect this

I’m glad it’s rallied

AZ have the right to commercialize the vaccine in future, it's not at cost forever, not to mention all the reputational uplifts so I wouldn't worry too much about their profits and all that money the EU and the UK paid up front for R&D will have contributed nicely. I don't have a problem with that but it's definitely not just for the good of humanity....

[quote Crazycatlady83]@LangClegsInSpace I don’t disagree, there is clearly not an ideal situation when need massively outstrips demand. But there will be absolutely no way any politician could ever sell this to the British public. Our death rate is very high, the current mutation is raging in certain areas. Arguably, it’s “us” that need controlling (having the mutation which may be more transmissible etc) It therefore just won’t be shipped out to other countries until every adult has received an invite to be vaccinated. No politician had the balls[/quote]
Yes, 'us' along with Brazil and South Africa and ... where next? Where will the next variant of concern pop up? It could be anywhere in the world and it's massively more likely to come from somewhere that has high rates of community transmission. Will the next variant be a concern because it's more transmissible? Because it's more deadly? Or because it renders the current generation of vaccines useless? All of these are fairly likely.

We can probably tweak the current vaccines very quickly to combat new variants but that still means starting our whole vaccination programme over again from scratch.

It therefore just won’t be shipped out to other countries until every adult has received an invite to be vaccinated.

The covax programme is hoping to begin vaccinating health care workers in low income countries by the end of February. They've been gearing up for this since last March. The idea that everyone in the UK must be offered a vaccine before any help is offered to low income countries is morally disgusting, as well as very shortsighted, and I'm very glad that's not what is happening, even if the contributions so far from the UK, from the EU and from other wealthy nations, are dismally small.

In the early months of last year loads of people were wanging on about 'Declare A Pandemic!!' I hope none of those people are among the ones who are now demanding that we vaccinate everybody in the UK before offering to help other countries.

Other countries getting our vaccines would not include the eu though but countries in the third world in dire need...

This is a tinder box situation.

A few states wanted to do their own thing but were bullied pressured to join the bloc
Meanwhile Germany went ahead and ordered millions on the side anyway. One rule for the EU, another for Germany, I guess

It's not for nothing that Germany are very high in the table of EU rule breaches - or at least they did last time I checked
But then they're also by far the largest net contributor, so maybe they consider themselves entitled?

As for sending vaccines elsewhere from mid-February - isn't that the target date for first jabs to be given, with the second to follow? And wouldn't diverting them to other countries extend the 12 week gap (which is already against Pfizer's recommendations)?

I'm not in the UK and I have to say I find reading this thread very disturbing. The rhetoric and venom from some is deeply unpleasant.

Lang well said

I hope those pro doing it are opting out on principle

@MarshaBradyo. The risk of dying from Covid if you are under 65 is minimal. The average age of a Covid victim is 82.4 (in a country where the average life expectancy is 81). The reason for a greater number of young people being in ICU is greater viral transmission, but the relative overall numbers are still tiny.

Yes, I will be opting out until at least next year. The risk to my demographic is very small and I'd rather the dose went to someone who needs it.

@LangClegsInSpace the poster meant that they won't divert uk jabs elsewhere and take off our vulnerable citizens . We have bought stock for us and they won't say sorry under 40's you can't have until next year as we are diverting elsewhere , there are plans in place to help elsewhere already.
Also the sooner we get our economy back up the better position we are in to help others

[quote MessAllOver]@MarshaBradyo. The risk of dying from Covid if you are under 65 is minimal. The average age of a Covid victim is 82.4 (in a country where the average life expectancy is 81). The reason for a greater number of young people being in ICU is greater viral transmission, but the relative overall numbers are still tiny.

Yes, I will be opting out until at least next year. The risk to my demographic is very small and I'd rather the dose went to someone who needs it.[/quote]
We cannot get the country back to operating properly before ICU issue is resolved. This is a median age of around 60 so plenty are under 60

Your idea is not a good one.

The rhetoric and venom from some is deeply unpleasant.

I assume you mean the EU. Agreed.

@SwimmingOnEggshells

I'm not in the UK and I have to say I find reading this thread very disturbing. The rhetoric and venom from some is deeply unpleasant.

Have you been following rhetoric from German MEPs etc?

@TooMuchYarn

I don't think it's right that the UK - or any other country - should be allowed to vaccinate more than than their highest priority groups. Approx 30% of the population of the EU/EEA and the UK is either over 60 years old or has one of the underlying conditions associated with COVID-19 risk. No country should be vaccinating more than that until ALL the highest risk group people have been vaccinated in all countries. But that won't happen, the rich countries will vaccinate all they can regardless of what happens in other countries. The UK wanting to do this is just the start.

I understand what you’re saying and to be fair to you, you’re not wrong, but it’s the way of the world. Citizens of wealthy countries benefit from the wealth.

We could make the same point on food/water or medicines for poor countries, but sadly we don’t. Money talks and all. There are positives and negatives

We cannot get the country back to operating properly before ICU issue is resolved. This is a median age of around 60 so plenty are under 60

There are other countries in the world whose health systems are even more overwhelmed than ours is.

@SwimmingOnEggshells

I'm not in the UK and I have to say I find reading this thread very disturbing. The rhetoric and venom from some is deeply unpleasant.

Nothing compared to what EU has been saying to us since we decided upon brexit, all those years of how we are stupid etc. Well pot kettle black, I don't care if I'm reveling in it a little bit.

Because guess what we weren't that stupid after all.

@MessAllOver long covid and a trip to icu still isn't pleasant.
You not taking your jab doesn't mean it will be diverted elsewhere thats not how it works.
There are programmes in place , not sure if donations etc can be made but if so you would be better doing this.
Isn't the point of most having it as we hope it helps gain herd immunity , that won't work if too many opt out and if still loads in hospital then people with other conditions will be getting treatment late etc

Mess you really would opt to plunge people into further debt, lose more jobs

Do you work, is your job or household income at risk?

Given we have the highest number of deaths in Europe from covid, then we need to vaccinate here as much as possible

The rhetoric and venom from some is deeply unpleasant.

Yes, several EU leaders are being deeply unpleasant and obnoxious in an attempt to cover their arses.

@MarshaBradyo. Do you read the international news? What's happening in this country, awful as it is, is a picnic compared to what's happening in some other places in the world.

The idea that everyone in the UK must be offered a vaccine before any help is offered to low income countries is morally disgusting

Turns out the lives everyone was so keen on saving were firmly within UK borders.
As usual not a fuck given about anything beyond.

And I'm not getting into the EU thread before anyone starts. I mean us vaccinating young healthy Brits while vulnerable people die in their millions globally.

I hope none of the people supporting that dare shriek "selfish" at others again.

[quote MessAllOver]@MarshaBradyo. Do you read the international news? What's happening in this country, awful as it is, is a picnic compared to what's happening in some other places in the world.[/quote]
Can you answer the question?

It’s very easy to suggest other people lose more if you don’t have to