Why should the UK vaccine supply be diverted to Europe?

[lovelemoncurd]

They ordered 3 months later than the UK. They have themselves less time to sort glitches. They have been slow to the table and now they wish to punish to UK for being efficient.

I was a remain voter. I'm starting to change my mind!

What are Covax and others doing anyway?

Doesn’t this start soon

@MessAllOver we have one of the highest death rates in the world so I think we need it , by your reckoning nz and australia etc should not be getting any?
What countries healthcare is under worst pressure than ours due to covid , i thought we were actually doing pretty badly ?

All vaccines produced in the UK should stay in the UK.
How dare the EU suggest that vaccines produced in the EU should remain in the EU.

Yeah, right.

@MaxNormal

The idea that everyone in the UK must be offered a vaccine before any help is offered to low income countries is morally disgusting

Turns out the lives everyone was so keen on saving were firmly within UK borders.
As usual not a fuck given about anything beyond.

And I'm not getting into the EU thread before anyone starts. I mean us vaccinating young healthy Brits while vulnerable people die in their millions globally.

I hope none of the people supporting that dare shriek "selfish" at others again.

Are you ok with lock down for longer as ICU is under too much pressure

How long are you up for waiting?

@MaxNormal there are programmes in place but currently people are dying here as well and as it looks likely we will have to repeat jabs , you do need to vaccinate as many as possible to continue to protect everybody.
We have one of the worst death rates and younger people do die

Yep highest deaths, the vaccine was developed in this country, we signed a deal 3 months before the EU, the vaccine is made here and in the country already, we haven't even finished vaccinating and our cases/hospital admissions/deaths though dropping are still very high (deaths not yet).

@MarshaBradyo. Your question is irrelevant. Once the vulnerable groups have been vaccinated, we should:

1. share our vaccine supplies; and
2. open everything up again.

I am not advocating a longer lockdown. Just that young healthy people in this country should take their chances so that the elderly and vulnerable in other countries, many of which have limited healthcare options and so Covid means certain death for these people, can be vaccinated first.

The risk of dying from Covid if you are under 65 is minimal. The average age of a Covid victim is 82.4 (in a country where the average life expectancy is 81). The reason for a greater number of young people being in ICU is greater viral transmission, but the relative overall numbers are still tiny

Many of us realise this, MessAllOver, but the instant it's pointed out we're told that ICU is full of younger people and that, on pain of the NHS collapsing, nobody can relax until the vast majority of the population have been vaccinated

The point is that government and the media have managed to terrify vast swathes of the population, so suddenly expecting them to give up "their" vaccines just can't be done - as said, it would be political suicide

@SaraGilbert that isn't what people have said though is it

[quote MessAllOver]@MarshaBradyo. Your question is irrelevant. Once the vulnerable groups have been vaccinated, we should:

1. share our vaccine supplies; and
2. open everything up again.

I am not advocating a longer lockdown. Just that young healthy people in this country should take their chances so that the elderly and vulnerable in other countries, many of which have limited healthcare options and so Covid means certain death for these people, can be vaccinated first.[/quote]
Again look at age in ICU

If you don’t want lockdown lasting you need to do lower age than first 4 groups

It’s pretty easy to get

The point is that government and the media have managed to terrify vast swathes of the population, so suddenly expecting them to give up "their" vaccines just can't be done - as said, it would be political suicide

I agree with this. Fear leads to selfishness.

@MarshaBradyo. When the higher priority groups have been vaccinated, ICUs won't be overwhelmed. The majority of people in ICUs are not in the younger age brackets.

Honestly that’s just bollocks

I won’t get it before life goes on and I’ll go out and dc will go to school

I’m not fearful

I want ICU numbers to stop blocking normal life

@MessAllOver you can't open everything up just like that without having protection .
No country is doing this and there are programmes to help out
Not everyone can have the vaccine for various reasons so do they have to stay in shielded ?
Like I said if you say no to a vaccine it won't be sent elsewhere by the time we probably get around to vaccinating all fully it could be time to start again for all we know

[quote MessAllOver]@MarshaBradyo. When the higher priority groups have been vaccinated, ICUs won't be overwhelmed. The majority of people in ICUs are not in the younger age brackets.[/quote]
Ok be specific with numbers

I want ICU numbers to stop blocking normal life

If the vaccine works, this will happen well before younger groups are vaccinated. If it doesn't, well...

@MessAllOver you going to say that to people who have lost loved ones , and are drs and nurses lying about current ages in icu?

@MessAllOver you keep going on about mid feb as well when not many would of had the full does , that will be more april time.
Is it just the uk that you think should adopt this strategy?

@SwimmingOnEggshells

I'm not in the UK and I have to say I find reading this thread very disturbing. The rhetoric and venom from some is deeply unpleasant.

The U.K. government has been trashed left right and centre for its death rates but when it actually gets it right in something, it's not allowed it benefit. Honestly do f£&k off. Don't forget our taxpayer money has helped fund an affordable and simple to deliver vaccine. It will be distributed round the world. Right now, we have the highest death rate in the world so it's hardly selfish to sort ourselves out first.

Most low income countries are in much better positions than us or the EU. They have significantly younger demographics, and often less obesity. It is, in many ways, a rich country disease. Distributions to lower income countries should be made on the basis of their actual risk profile/current case and death rate.

To benefit.

@messallover do you turn down other vaccines as well ? Because lots of countries don't have other vaccinations we have as well

Interestingly, didn't someone say on a recent thread that ages of those in ICU aren't officially reported and that much of the "evidence" is anecdotal?

They seemed to know what they were on about and quoted chapter and verse, but of course it's lost now among all the rest ... anyone else remember it?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Interestingly, didn't someone say on a recent thread that ages of those in ICU aren't officially reported and that much of the "evidence" is anecdotal?

They seemed to know what they were on about and quoted chapter and verse, but of course it's lost now among all the rest ... anyone else remember it?

Read the ICNARC report

Very good and shows a lot of detail on who is in ICU

@MessAllOver

you always put your own oxygen mask on first before helping others.

Even if you don't really need oxygen and the person next to you is gasping for it?

Have you not noticed people calling the UK "plague island"? We need oxygen more than most here.