Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

Wow you couldn’t make this stuff up. I can’t believe Germany can make false accusations about a vaccine that could potentially derail the way out of this mess and everyone seems to think it’s ok! Surely there should be some legal action to stop this happening in the future?

What an odd story to gain traction. Nothing has ever suggested poor efficacy in older age groups. The very opposite in fact compared with flu jabs. It was a big pleasant surprise to the scientists. So that if you've been following the vaccine stories at all it would look like an error.

Same as the Israeli quote that the vaccine wasn't very useful in the first wee while after vaccination .. noone has ever claimed it to be. Immunity builds over weeks.

Bloody hell, I don’t know what’s worse - making it up or just being so dim that you can get that mixed up!!!! These ‘expert sources’ not experts in science or statistics then!!!

@OhYouBadBadKitten - But it is no excuse for vaccine scaremongering by journalists, on purpose, or by accident.
Two papers, who stated they were briefed by politicians. So it's politicians rather than journalists, and not one journalist making a mistake. We all have our idiot politicians, but I bet Merkel wants to know which ones it was who gave the false briefing.

OhYouBabBadKitten - But it is no excuse for vaccine scaremongering by journalists, on purpose, or by accident. Absolutely. I agree with the rest of your post too.

[quote MRex]**@OhYouBadBadKitten* - But it is no excuse for vaccine scaremongering by journalists, on purpose, or by accident.*
Two papers, who stated they were briefed by politicians. So it's politicians rather than journalists, and not one journalist making a mistake. We all have our idiot politicians, but I bet Merkel wants to know which ones it was who gave the false briefing.[/quote]
Without names it could be unfounded

We get the same ‘ministers report’ here. Then other papers pick it up

@thatgingergirl

I agree FourTeaFallOut. Seems from the Reuters link and the Twitter link, the German Health Ministry have denied the report. It's good they've done that early.

As i said last night on another thread i found 8% had to believe.

The EMA are just doing their job.

So are the UK's MHRA. And i find it hard to believe that believe that they would either fuck up to that degree or that they made the decision under government duress (remember the MHRA have recently told the government very bluntly and publicly to piss off over lateral flow tests in schools)

I'm glad that the German government has corrected but its now a damage limitation exercise. Its not without consequences.

I do wonder who or what has motivated the story. Its damaging to everyone.

We are lucky as the UK does seem to have one of the highest levels of trust in vaccine in the world. Thats not true everywhere particularly in the EU.

@thatgingergirl

I agree FourTeaFallOut. Seems from the Reuters link and the Twitter link, the German Health Ministry have denied the report. It's good they've done that early.

Yes that is very good

I think it is a matter of watch this space for any future political moves about supply. However an early response is a excellent.

@IcedPurple

It looks like the EMA is not going to approve the AZ vaccine for use in the over 65s in the EU as it has not been sufficiently tested for that age group.

Does it look like that though?

Other than the debunked claim from an anonymous source, what evidence is there that this will happen?

It's a separate issue to the 8% efficacy claims which have been debunked. The issue is that the EMA has not received sufficient evidence of trials of the vaccine in the over 65s. The 8% is made up nonsense. The lack of trials of the vaccine in the over 65s is not. That said, I've only read articles in German newspapers about the possible non-approval. There has been no official statement from the EMA about this yet. The decision is expected on Friday.

@HeyHeyImABeLeaver

It’s what happens when you have journalists (and SM commentators) who think they are also scientists.

Massive back pedalling is the order of the day today I would imagine.

Isn't that the same every pigging day lately!

@MarshaBradyo - We usually get "sources close to government", which means one of the SPADs rather than journalists making it up.

[quote MRex]@MarshaBradyo - We usually get "sources close to government", which means one of the SPADs rather than journalists making it up.[/quote]
Yes we get that too. But I’ve also seen ministers esp when DM is linked

They seem to have concentrated on approving the vaccines that they knew would be a struggle to procure in the knowledge that they had what the believed a guaranteed supply of AZ. Unless you have physical stock it is always dangerous to believe manufacturing of a new product will arrive. Especially vaccines that may need modification then stockpiling without approval is not great. Neither is keeping vaccines back when it hasn’t been approved when it could be saving lives.

@OhYouBadBadKitten

Bloody fake news. Thanks MNHQ for editing the title. I think that was a wise course of action.

I had just seen this tweet too. How on earth could journalists get this so wrong?

RedToothBrush I'm glad that the German government has corrected but its now a damage limitation exercise. Its not without consequences.* I know, it is depressing. I used to place a lot of trust in journalism (John Pilger was a hero of mine). Over the last few years, that trust has been massively dented. That's depressing too.

Off to eat chocolate.

[quote MRex]**@OhYouBadBadKitten* - But it is no excuse for vaccine scaremongering by journalists, on purpose, or by accident.*
Two papers, who stated they were briefed by politicians. So it's politicians rather than journalists, and not one journalist making a mistake. We all have our idiot politicians, but I bet Merkel wants to know which ones it was who gave the false briefing.[/quote]
Can i remind people that fact checking isnt just about asking people their opinion and citing their position. Its actually fact checking and getting the data to back it up.

I will stress here again, these German newspapers questioned the credibility of the MHRA in doing this. Its full of reputable scientists. And has form for standing up to the uk government.

But these German newspapers wanted the easy, lazy story with a good anti uk tilt on it.

Ive spent a long time being critical of british newspapers reporting healthy studies in a misleading way. This is worse because its not properly sourced.

Given what is at stake its a massive own goal for German interests. All for the sake of a quick anti uk story.

I think it shows the degree to which issues over the vaccine are proving difficult for EU governments to manage... And just how much Brexit has left a bitter taste in the mouths of EU countries.

The UK has lost a huge standing and is actively disliked to a degree which haven't yet got our heads around yet...

@redsquirrelfan

The media got it so wrong in the same way the sun and the DM twist things to make a sensational headline.

They twist the truth, shove in the word may and quote anonymous sources.

It happens all the time in the British tabloids so unsurprisingly it will happen in other countries tabloids.

Not that I condone it in anyway. Tabloid media needs to be more accountable for their twisted version of the truth and other media outlets shouldn’t be so quick to repeat it.

The EU’s health commissioner, Stella Kyriakides, made a televised statement to express her frustration at the company’s behaviour, warning that the answers so far provided had not been satisfactory.

I'm really surprised Brussels politicians are stooping so low.
If you can't get the vaccine from AZ, then sort that at source! Don't start saying that your'll then stop Pfizer supplying GB.

It's like the big boys, conglomerates, Sainsbury's saying, I can't get grapes, so now I'll focus on small boy greengrocer, to stop his supply.

What she's done, and other EU politicians, by stooping so low, is just embarrassing. Politically. And morally.

I'm really surprised Brussels politicians are stooping so low.
If you can't get the vaccine from AZ, then sort that at source! Don't start saying that your'll then stop Pfizer supplying GB.

As i say it shows just how strained relations are and how untrusted and unliked the uk are.

We really have burnt all good will up.

Yet again we see scientifically illiterate, innumerate journalists who are incapable of understanding data on a spreadsheet using their ignorance to create completely false anti-vaccine scare stories which then get amplified by idiots on social media.

Scientists must wonder why they even bother trying to communicate with journalists sometimes.

Well I think this is a marvellous excuse for us to go to war with the Hun Germany. It's always been popular in the past...
Anyone considered that the politicians who told the German papers could have been British Tories?

But how petty of Germany to do this, it will effect the whole vaccinating programme, what a childish way to behave at such a volatile time, the only way out of this is through the vaccine, this will effect the whole world

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats

Well I think this is a marvellous excuse for us to go to war with the Hun Germany. It's always been popular in the past... Anyone considered that the politicians who told the German papers could have been British Tories?

It used to be France we liked to go to war with - it only changed in the 20th century.

JRM or some other ERG twonk feeding Handelsblatt nonsense? As well as the Daily Fail? Quite likely.

Not sure this shows how unpopular the UK is. It just shows that people in other countries are panicking over vaccine supplies and are trying to protect them.

At the end of the day what is going to save more lives?

Hding onto stick waiting for the eu who may or may not approve it?

Or sending it somewhere that has approved and have arms waiting for the jab to go in?

It's not a case of dodgy dealings it's a case of saving lives.

The eu just look stupid and bitter now!

Holding onto stock*