Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

It’s outrageous and yet another example of how the media has been utterly irresponsible in the face of this crisis. It makes me so mad. Either they genuinely got the 8% efficacy mixed up with the fact that 8% of the people in the trial were 65+ years (which I struggle to believe. Nobody in a relative position of influence can be that bloody stupid) or they were pissed off that their supply of AZ was being under delivered and this was their revenge.

Either way this does NOTHING for vaccine confidence. Which incidentally will end up hurting the EU more where vaccine confidence is already low, than it will the U.K.

We now need a new thread title with ‘8% efficacy claim utterly discredited’. Even seeing the title on here propels the misunderstanding.

The title is bugging me I have to say. Its that use of a % to give it scientific aura too. Ugh.

Important points from Peston on the differences between AZ relationship with U.K. and EU.

twitter.com/peston/status/1354019140084916225?s=21

I'm really surprised Brussels politicians are stooping so low.
If you can't get the vaccine from AZ, then sort that at source! Don't start saying that your'll then stop Pfizer supplying GB.
Unfortunately I'm not surprised at all. The EU have massively fucked up the vaccine ordering, now try diversion tactics to stop the massive revolt that is already happening there. The fact that the UK did so much better without them is very damaging to the headline they love to push and will fuel the criticism in Europe of the Commission. Also concerning that Germany and Hungary have both gone off piste in utter disgust with the Commission and ordered their own vaccines. So much for EU solidarity, as always. The fact that they have threatened Trumpian measures is just the icing on the cake for me. I would love to say I'm watching all this from a safe distance but my 87 year old German MIL (who is very dear to us all) still has no near date for her vaccine, and my 73 year old good friend here in the UK will likely receive the vaccine before her 94 year old Parisienne mother. You can't argue with that, it's a shambles for all to see.

[quote Ohthatsgreat]Important points from Peston on the differences between AZ relationship with U.K. and EU.

twitter.com/peston/status/1354019140084916225?s=21[/quote]
Thanks, that was a clear and concise summing up of the situation.

[quote Ohthatsgreat]Important points from Peston on the differences between AZ relationship with U.K. and EU.

twitter.com/peston/status/1354019140084916225?s=21[/quote]
This is v helpful

So going by this it’s not a contractual failure? If I’ve read it correctly

@Ohthatsgreat gosh just read that. And the plot indeed thickens...

So going by this it’s not a contractual failure? If I’ve read it correctly

I read it the same way, time has been lost agreeing the contract which means supply logistics are not in place impacting delivery.

Also, some analysis of the EU contract with AZ:

twitter.com/barristershorse/status/1353905785651273728?s=21

The Germans, French, Italians and Dutch must be FURIOUS. Oh they are!

I'm really surprised Brussels politicians are stooping so low.
If you can't get the vaccine from AZ, then sort that at source! Don't start saying that your'll then stop Pfizer supplying GB.

Where do they say that then? They are directing their anger at an multinational pharmaceutical company they believe is welshing on a contract, not at the UK and they talking about ensuring that no vaccines leave the EU to ANY country, not just the UK. Why are people making this into some kind of nationalistic insult?

And by the way, are you not giving any vaccines to NI? Only GB?

A pro-EU source at the company says "I understand Brexit better now".

From the Peston tweet

And that fully clarified, for me, why the rebuild/gearing up is taking place now for the EU supply.

Prof Adam Finn of JCVI:

The mysterious story circulating emanating from a German newspaper suggesting low Ox-AZ efficacy in the elderly turns out to have been someone misunderstanding that the proportion of elderly people in the study is not the same thing as the efficacy of the vaccine in that group

twitter.com/adamhfinn/status/1354037406769565696

[quote Ohthatsgreat]So going by this it’s not a contractual failure? If I’ve read it correctly

I read it the same way, time has been lost agreeing the contract which means supply logistics are not in place impacting delivery.

Also, some analysis of the EU contract with AZ:

twitter.com/barristershorse/status/1353905785651273728?s=21[/quote]
This is great

It is all very clear on delays which are ok

Only part that I wondered about was distracted fairly - this must just be trusted unless you have to back up with proof

Not a lawyer so always happy to hear from posters who know more or just what they think even if not a lawyer

Why shouldn't the EU be angry about this? AZ have taken our money but aren't supplying the goods. Why shouldn't the EU question them about where the vaccines we've paid for have gone? Contrary to what many in the UK believe, the EU is accountable to us, the citizens of the EU.

Also it hasn’t been approved yet which is another part of it

@FatCatThinCat

Why shouldn't the EU be angry about this? AZ have taken our money but aren't supplying the goods. Why shouldn't the EU question them about where the vaccines we've paid for have gone? Contrary to what many in the UK believe, the EU is accountable to us, the citizens of the EU.

Read some of the Twitter threads above about the contract Astra Zeneca had with the EU.

And while you're at it, shouldn't you direct your anger at the fact that the EU are conducting vaccine approvals at a snail's pace?

What a coincidence that the German newspaper should release 'accidental' false information just as they learn about the vaccine delay.

How very convenient that it also just happens to be about the very same pharma company too.

@FatCatThinCat

Why shouldn't the EU be angry about this? AZ have taken our money but aren't supplying the goods. Why shouldn't the EU question them about where the vaccines we've paid for have gone? Contrary to what many in the UK believe, the EU is accountable to us, the citizens of the EU.

Interesting take

Yes read the contractual info linked below

@FatCatThinCat

Why shouldn't the EU be angry about this? AZ have taken our money but aren't supplying the goods. Why shouldn't the EU question them about where the vaccines we've paid for have gone? Contrary to what many in the UK believe, the EU is accountable to us, the citizens of the EU.

Also the contract terminates if you don’t approve it so you wouldn’t have the product before deciding

@usuallydormant did you read the two Twitter threads above?

It is a gift for brexiteers for sure, either way. Thankfully not too many crowing.

@feelingquitehopeful my thoughts exactly. This could be a film plot!

@feelingquitehopeful I meant on this post

What a coincidence that the German newspaper should release 'accidental' false information just as they learn about the vaccine delay.

How very convenient that it also just happens to be about the very same pharma company too. hmm

What a coincidence. AZ must be tearing their hair out.