Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

@soundofsilence1
Please correct me if I am wrong but it appears the whole of the EU combined has only pledged 500m euros
ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2262

You are wrong ...
The press release you cite yourself talks about "€500 million of new European financial support ". Further down it says "Together with the EU Member States, Team Europe has so far allocated more than €850 million to COVAX"
(and it's six weeks old so that's hardly the newest figures)

Why anyone would care what Alistair Campbell has to say on any subject is beyond me.

British newspaper front pages leading with the story today either are fairly neutral or anti-EU (Mail and Express), with the obvious and predictable exception of the Guardian which makes it seem like a trade war in which Britain is to blame. Yawn.

But the comparator remain as stated. The UK has pledged the second highest amount...

@MarionoiraM - it's great that the EU donation amount has gone up to €850m. That's about £750m, compared with UK's £548m. As you're implying that makes everything equal in contribution, that suggests you think the UK has equivalent economic strength now to the combined wealth of Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, Austria, Luxembourg, Finland, Portugal, Poland, Belgium, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Greece, Czech Republic, Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Malta and Cyprus? Brexit must be going ever so well if that's the case.

😁

Seems appropriate to wheel this out again:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-vaccine-delays-brexit-ema-expensive

The EU are having a proper old tantrum at being made to look inept, slow and disorganised in comparison to the UK and this is them acting like the playground bully to punish us for their feelings of humiliation.

It's so transparent and Remainers, having run out of ways to excuse the EU's slowness on vaccine rollout and realising they can't justify this shocking behaviour we are seeing now, seem have gone extremely quiet on the subject.

Oh that article has made my morning @FuriousWithTheNHS - thank you!

I read something that said if every country donated to COVAX at the level that UK and Australia have done, the programme wouid be fully funded.

I do hope other rich countries will match the leading two (not absolute amount, amount proportional to size)

And the case for Brexit is being made on every front page in Europe

I've never wished for a better grasp of another European language than I do now.

'wished more' that should have said

Furious The EU/AZ issue is being underplayed. It hardly gets a mention on Le Figaro’s front page, which has articles on how French research and pharma have dropped the ball (Sanofi, Institut Pasteur) and what a disgrace it is.... Similar story on Le Monde - yes the AZ is there, but more prominence given to the state of French research....

Sorry - posted too soon. I suspect the Brexit angle means that the AZ/EU issue has a more receptive audience here.

Jeremy Vine just about to cover this on his show now

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants - It's sad that so many journalists have such a preference for attacking their own side. As if in normal scientific research people snap their fingers and boom - vaccine. The world is lucky with the vaccines that work, it's horrible to blame scientists for "failure". They should be criticising why it's taken so long to ask Sanofi to help with the supply network, why the EC is fighting with a supplier instead of helping them etc.

I think the EU is on a hiding to nothing asking for export controls. I think it means that pharma giants will look to Switzerland and the U.K. (poss. Israel as well) for manufacturing capacity, as they know then they’ll be able to export to anywhere, not just the EU, and if they insist on export controls they better be very sure that they can make enough vaccines in the EU for the entire population. India, for example, is not going to supply the EU when the EU has just pulled an almighty protectionist trick!

I think the EU is on a hiding to nothing asking for export controls.

Once the Covid crisis is over, it won't bode well for their economic future either. Who's going to want to set up a factory in the EU now they've shown they're willing to meddle in companies' exports?

I think that the EU is in even deeper trouble than that, from member countries. Watching Germany snaffle extra vaccines, and the Commission turning a blind eye, then having the same German politicians lecturing you about everybody standing together can't go down well, especially when, like Spain, you run out of vaccine.
Also, the Covid Relief Fund is problematic. Conti, in Italy, has already resigned over it.
One of the problems is that, alongside the carrot (money) the EU is holding a large stick, such as reforms in pensions and taxation. Which might not go down well in member states.
We'll see.

Who's going to want to set up a factory in the EU now they've shown they're willing to meddle in companies' exports?

And to add to my previous comment, further to today’s news - meddle in companies’ exports and raid their factories?

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants

I think the EU is on a hiding to nothing asking for export controls. I think it means that pharma giants will look to Switzerland and the U.K. (poss. Israel as well) for manufacturing capacity, as they know then they’ll be able to export to anywhere, not just the EU, and if they insist on export controls they better be very sure that they can make enough vaccines in the EU for the entire population. India, for example, is not going to supply the EU when the EU has just pulled an almighty protectionist trick!

Yes long term they have probably just done us a massive favour. More business will come are way for drug development and manufacturing.

I think it's a very dangerous situation in Europe, the anger is understandably running very high and the response is not making the politicians look any better - publicly taking AZ to task when they are producing a practical solution to the pandemic at cost (no good act ever goes unpunished), suggesting (not threatening though) Trumpian measures, penny pinching about cost when the delay to economic recovery is so massive and totally overwhelms any few cents saved, clearly the potential loss to human life, leaking a clear attempt to discredit the efficacy of the virus to downplay the UK success - it's all just horrific and thank God Johnson is not commenting. The only silver lining for me is that this has revealed them for what they are, but I wish it weren't so and have no joy in it at all.

yes, being shown up as bullying AND incapable. Not good.
At least they can be voted out. Except they can't.

The FT are reporting the German authorities recommend against using AZ for over 65s until there is more data.

This will further slow EU vaccination. Time will tell which approach was correct.

@PronounssheRa it’s so good that the EU seems to have so much time to wait and see.

[quote MRex]@MarionoiraM - it's great that the EU donation amount has gone up to €850m. That's about £750m, compared with UK's £548m. As you're implying that makes everything equal in contribution, that suggests you think the UK has equivalent economic strength now to the combined wealth of Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Sweden, Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland, Austria, Luxembourg, Finland, Portugal, Poland, Belgium, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania, Greece, Czech Republic, Croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia, Malta and Cyprus? Brexit must be going ever so well if that's the case.[/quote]
I didn't say that at all. I was just pointing out that another poster was trying to prove a point by citing an article that actually contradicted him. But judging by the way you are trying to put words in my mouth, reading comprehension seems to be sadly lacking on this thread.
(By the way, the EU has 27 Member States, so if you were trying to name them all, try again.)

Long read but quite comprehensive overview of the EU vaccination issues and backstory.

www.politico.eu/article/europe-coronavirus-vaccine-struggle-pfizer-biontech-astrazeneca/

@PronounssheRa

The FT are reporting the German authorities recommend against using AZ for over 65s until there is more data.

This will further slow EU vaccination. Time will tell which approach was correct.

That really is bonkers if true and just puts more pressure on pfzier and moderna vaccines that are harder to distribute. It’ll throw many EU countries program into disarray. But on the positive side, it might take some of the heat out of the AZ row as demand will be immediately reduced.