Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

If it was the other way around, would the EU really be offering us vaccines from their orders? I very much doubt it, they would be using the chance to gloat about how stupid Brexit was. I do feel bad this is happening as obviously their citizens shouldn't suffer, but they can also fuck off.

I fear how bitter this is going to get. News is Spain have run out of vaccine. Just as there is a new spike in cases.

they would be using the chance to gloat about how stupid Brexit was.

Indeed. And so would Remainers. We would have heard a lot about how we would have been stronger and had more clout as part of a big group. How silly we were to think we could manage by ourselves. How we were a laughing stock and people from unnamed but far superior country were watching Britain in horror. Etc. Etc.

@Backbee

If it was the other way around, would the EU really be offering us vaccines from their orders? I very much doubt it, they would be using the chance to gloat about how stupid Brexit was. I do feel bad this is happening as obviously their citizens shouldn't suffer, but they can also fuck off.

I’m torn on this one - they could have played it either way!

Not offer the UK vaccines = “there you go member states, this is how you could end up if you think about leaving”

Offer the UK vaccines = “there you go member states, this is how you could have ended up and now we’re showing how great we are together by helping the nation that left us”

I could see both scenarios being spun out well enough to satisfy a fair few people!

There is talk that the EU is not even going to licence the AZ vaccines for the over 55s. If this is the case it hardly makes sense to divert the UK supplies from older higher priority groups to younger lower priority groups in the EU.

@Furries - as the current suggestions from the EU are to take UK's legally purchased supplies from both AZ and Pfizer, I suggest it seems unlikely that in a reversed role they would be generously handing over vaccines.

they would be using the chance to gloat about how stupid Brexit was.

Indeed. And so would Remainers. We would have heard a lot about how we would have been stronger and had more clout as part of a big group. How silly we were to think we could manage by ourselves. How we were a laughing stock and people from unnamed but far superior country were watching Britain in horror. Etc. Etc.

Seems appropriate to wheel this out again:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-vaccine-delays-brexit-ema-expensive

The EU are having a proper old tantrum at being made to look inept, slow and disorganised in comparison to the UK and this is them acting like the playground bully to punish us for their feelings of humiliation.

It's so transparent and Remainers, having run out of ways to excuse the EU's slowness on vaccine rollout and realising they can't justify this shocking behaviour we are seeing now, seem have gone extremely quiet on the subject.

@TheVanguardSix

In other news, the Pfizer vaccine seems to be doing the trick in Israel...

Quick question. How many Palestinians have they vaccinated?

Not enough.

If it looks like the U.K. is going to have more than it needs then we should of course donate our excess. But doesn’t that need to be to covax? There is an argument the EU needs it more as deaths are so much higher in Europe obviously including the U.K. here.
I hope we do help europe, particularly RoI as they are our neighbours and we share a common travel area/ border.

And yes ardent retainers are wondering which way to jump or saying nothing at all. Non ardent remainers that accepted the vote in 2016 like me have had their eyes opened a bit to how the EU behaves in a hole. It looks terrible globally too, threatening to take over patents etc. Why would any foreign company want to be based in the EU in the future if that can potentially happen?!
I think the EU basically thought their greater purchasing power was enough to get the pharma companies vying for their business but when a product is in huge global demand the reverse can be true.

This has left me wondering what other parts of their trade and negotiation reputation is utter bollocks as well.

Because EU has royally fucked up here, on an issue that was supposedly a strength.

@sashagabadon

If it looks like the U.K. is going to have more than it needs then we should of course donate our excess. But doesn’t that need to be to covax? There is an argument the EU needs it more as deaths are so much higher in Europe obviously including the U.K. here. I hope we do help europe, particularly RoI as they are our neighbours and we share a common travel area/ border.

If CEO is to be believed, by end Feb, EU will have 17% of their global supply for 5% of world population.

If we do end up with an excess, then of course we release it either to dependent territories or via COVAX

We're talking here about very rich countries with good supplies on order squabbling about one contract turning out to be delivering a few weeks later than they had hoped (but totally in line with what they actually contracted for). Not countries who could not afford to put in an advance order at all - and these are the sort of countries we should be helping as a matter of priority.

I'm very proud that UK made a large cash contribution to COVAX (higher than any EU country I've seen listed)

And yes ardent retainers are wondering which way to jump or saying nothing at all.

Indeed. Anyone expressing a desire to leave due to the EU’s excessive bureaucracy and inefficient “one size fits all” model would have been ripped to shreds on these boards (and they were, regularly).

I would rather 'excess' vaccines were donated to developing countries to be honest, along with the manpower to administer a vaccination programme if needed. Rather than the EU who fucked up a contract and are behaving like school children. I don't include ROI in that as actually I think we should extend an offer of assistance, but not sure we can because of EU regs.

Our Covax cash input was the second highest of 172 countries, according to Boris yesterday.

People often complain that the UK ignored it's own pandemic planning. But then don't look at the amount of money that was immediately made available to the NHS, various vaccine developers etc. That was from the pandemic plan.

Our Covax cash input was the second highest of 172 countries

Yet so many quick to criticise, as per

It's so transparent and Remainers, having run out of ways to excuse the EU's slowness on vaccine rollout and realising they can't justify this shocking behaviour we are seeing now, seem have gone extremely quiet on the subject.

Erm hello.

Waves.

In my post I didn’t mean remainers on Mumsnet. I mean in the media, celebrity ones. I’m off to check out Alastair Campbell Twitter account now, see if he has mentioned it!
And yes the much criticised pandemic exercise, the vaccine side of things is directly from that plan and is paying dividends now as they were obviously up and running so fast.
I hope this is soon resolved though and by March when other vaccines come on line it’ll become less of an issue as we do want the Europeans vaccinated ASAP.
Lesson for pharma companies for future pandemics- charge more for your vaccine to reduce demand, don’t make it super easy to roll out so that the world needs it, don’t rush the trials and work night and day as being first is nothing but a headache and don’t make any promises at all about anything ever, lastly, add a clause that if any country threatens to sue, the contract is immediately null and void

@CuriousaboutSamphire

Our Covax cash input was the second highest of 172 countries, according to Boris yesterday.

People often complain that the UK ignored it's own pandemic planning. But then don't look at the amount of money that was immediately made available to the NHS, various vaccine developers etc. That was from the pandemic plan.

The UK has pledged £548 million directly for Covax www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-raises-1bn-so-vulnerable-countries-can-get-vaccine

Please correct me if I am wrong but it appears the whole of the EU combined has only pledged 500m euros
ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_20_2262

There are plenty of remainers on twitter who hold similar views to me.

You are making a very sweeping statement with that one.

Its pretty clear that opinion on this subject isn't cut down on leave / remain lines at all.

There are plenty of remain voters who recognised the issues with the EU. There are lots of reasons why people voted remain.

I think Alistair Campbell is a bellend most of the time. And a politician. I don't really think using him to prove that remainers are saying x is either fair nor reflective.

Twitter is telling me its a real mixed bag of opinions.

You are not wrong. That was the undercurrent to what Boris said. It was the only time his little smirk came back yesterday.

Yes I agree Twitter is a mixed bag but very high profile critics like Campbell lose credibility when they can’t admit that they can be wrong. That’s really my point. He was a leading media commentator on Brexit/ remain, he must have an opinion of this situation and I would like to hear it as I have to hear his other opinions. He’s busy tweeting about Burnley football club at the moment.

Michael portillo on times radio now saying Uk shouldn’t get involved and should leave it to the lawyers. And the case for Brexit is being made on every front page in Europe.
But he agrees future sharing if U.K. has excess.

Everyone would be better off if we collectively ignore Alistair Campbell. He's had more than enough attention as it is. Just block him on twitter so he can't annoy you.

@MRex

Everyone would be better off if we collectively ignore Alistair Campbell. He's had more than enough attention as it is. Just block him on twitter so he can't annoy you.

Very true I used to think he was a very credible commentator though and listened to his POV so I think I am just disappointed. Twitter really ruins people generally I think.