Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

@meditrina
If CEO is to be believed, by end Feb, EU will have 17% of their global supply for 5% of world population.

People keep quoting this part of the interview. If that proportion is so outrageous, how is it ok that the UK will apparently receive 2 million doses per week, that is 8 million doses and thus 8 % of the global supply, for less than 1% of world population?

@PronounssheRa

The FT are reporting the German authorities recommend against using AZ for over 65s until there is more data.

This will further slow EU vaccination. Time will tell which approach was correct.

Germany now have a Pfizer manufacturing facility. They don't need AZ like the rest of the EU. Especially if not using for the over 65s.

Also I reckon Markle won't want Germany anymore associated with this EU behaviour than possible. Past history and all that. Therefore if she hasn't influenced this I would be surprised.

She has her faults but is very careful and logical. In the end helped to get some sort of Brexit deal going again. Hope her soon to be replacement is as sensible and reasonable.

[quote Blessex]@PronounssheRa it’s so good that the EU seems to have so much time to wait and see.[/quote]
It's a very cautious approach that's for sure.

No evidence that AZ is unsafe, no evidence its not effective but they want more data.

It’s not bonkers, I’d argue using a vaccine in over 65s with no efficacy data to support it is bonkers! I still can’t believe we’re not prioritising the Pfizer for the elderly and vulnerable (and giving the AZ to healthcare staff).

For what’s it’s worth (possibly not much), the journalist that broke the notorious 8% story has not rowed back on it on Twitter. He claims an internal analysis of clinical data did indeed show the 8% efficacy rate, and that there was no misreading or misunderstanding. The Germany Health Ministry has not supported this.

twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1354185774393122820?s=21

The EU projected vaccine supply gives perspective to their complaints against AZ. A vaccine being supplied at cost.

I don't know how any sane person can support the EU response to this.

[quote MarionoiraM]@meditrina
If CEO is to be believed, by end Feb, EU will have 17% of their global supply for 5% of world population.

People keep quoting this part of the interview. If that proportion is so outrageous, how is it ok that the UK will apparently receive 2 million doses per week, that is 8 million doses and thus 8 % of the global supply, for less than 1% of world population?[/quote]
I get your point but the U.K. aren’t the ones crying foul and threatening legal action and export restrictions and planting stories to discredit the vaccine.
When there were delays setting up the U.K. plant the U.K. accepted it as inevitable, worked with the company to resolve the issues, they didn’t take to the airways with threatening language.
That’s the difference I think.
But yes I agree both the EU and the U.K. will have a duty to export vaccines once they have vaccinated their own populations. Same as the Us and Canada too.

[quote MyHeartIsNeverOnTime]It’s not bonkers, I’d argue using a vaccine in over 65s with no efficacy data to support it is bonkers! I still can’t believe we’re not prioritising the Pfizer for the elderly and vulnerable (and giving the AZ to healthcare staff).

For what’s it’s worth (possibly not much), the journalist that broke the notorious 8% story has not rowed back on it on Twitter. He claims an internal analysis of clinical data did indeed show the 8% efficacy rate, and that there was no misreading or misunderstanding. The Germany Health Ministry has not supported this.

twitter.com/washingtonski/status/1354185774393122820?s=21[/quote]
It is bonkers when the other vaccines you have access to are very hard to roll out in many areas.
I am sure they I’ll prioritise pfzier for as many of their over 65’s as possible but not every elderly person wil be able to have it.

That's what Covax is for. And the manufacturers giving away 20% of less wealthy nations needs and a few other measures that have been outlined, but I can't remember the details of.

There is already a lot of support from many wealthy nations.

Again, this was part of the UK Pandemic Plan that many seem to think was useless/ has been ignored.

[quote MarionoiraM]@meditrina
If CEO is to be believed, by end Feb, EU will have 17% of their global supply for 5% of world population.

People keep quoting this part of the interview. If that proportion is so outrageous, how is it ok that the UK will apparently receive 2 million doses per week, that is 8 million doses and thus 8 % of the global supply, for less than 1% of world population?[/quote]
Um, we're not the ones complaining about not receiving it fast enough.

Just like we're not complaining about the possible delay in Pfizer supply (going short temporarily, because they're reconfiguring to boost production and we'll have plenty of supply in few weeks)

Do agree that we should be doing even more to support COVAX, because I think it will be a crying shame for countries to be left behind - both morally and in terms of self interest (leaving a large human reservoir is risky)

Ah, so now we have the full truth. It is 6.3% effective in over 65s, but on the already reported 2 cases, so an insane confidence interval that makes it useless.

twitter.com/olivernmoody/status/1354781400071860230?s=21

The broader point is that there remains no data on efficacy in this age group. I’m surprised that the EMA has not been provided with more recent data, given the Pascal Soriot mentioned they had a December update involving 200 cases now (and presumably more in the elderly). When they are going to release this? Would clear some things up as there have been a lot of cases in the UK in the past few months.

Latest analysis suggests the proven efficacy is even less than 8% - actually only 6.3% in over 65s.

The problem is the sheer lack of data as highlighted by Oliver Moody of The Times.
twitter.com/olivernmoody

Well! That's a different look, isn't it?

Complete lack of data. I think I read there was more done in the earlier phases of the trial that show comparative results with the younger age groups. I guess we are waiting on phase three trials in the US to see this at scale.

I thought Germany were one of the two countries working on the EMA approval. If they don't even want the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine for vulnerable groups, then why on earth should it matter for them to wait just a few weeks for their supply? I can't quite believe they still haven't given EMA approval, yet are conducting fraud reviews in AZ offices. No apologies for the German MEP's words that I can find either. It's like they've gone collectively insane. Perhaps AZ can offer them a bit of diazepam or something to calm it all down.

This is another classic Boris strategy - just give the oldies the vaccine early in the hopes that it will work just as well for them. And if those stick in the mud Europeans balk at doing the same, smear them as being jealous of Brexit.

So many comments on this thread are straight-up delusional.

Now we must all just hope that the vaccine is still very effective, and avoid a humanitarian disaster that would greatly damage vaccine takeup in the future. Thanks Tory party! Such a pity you didn’t get that Union Jack on the vaccine box like you wanted!

At least there are no doubts at all about safety.

This is another classic Boris strategy - just give the oldies the vaccine early in the hopes that it will work just as well for them

I wasn't aware Boris was a member of the MHRA.

@MRex

I thought Germany were one of the two countries working on the EMA approval. If they don't even want the Oxford-Astrazeneca vaccine for vulnerable groups, then why on earth should it matter for them to wait just a few weeks for their supply? I can't quite believe they still haven't given EMA approval, yet are conducting fraud reviews in AZ offices. No apologies for the German MEP's words that I can find either. It's like they've gone collectively insane. Perhaps AZ can offer them a bit of diazepam or something to calm it all down.

If I was German I would whole-heartedly approve of their actions on behalf of their citizens.

So would most people including most of MN who are anxious to get vaccinated and out of lockdown. It would matter for us to wait a few weeks, wouldn't it?

If I was a German MEP I wouldn't apologise for acting for the interests of the citizens of my country.

It isn't bloody football teams you know.

If AZ vaccine is so ineffective, why are Germany making a fuss about getting extra doses?

If AZ vaccine is so ineffective, why are Germany making a fuss about getting extra doses

The two issues have nothing to do with each other (despite the belief in some corners of the UK media that both are secretly all about Brexit).

And the doses are fine for younger people.

The worry is that all those hundreds of thousands of grannies who have been receiving them in the last month may not actually be adequately protected at all.

If I was a German MEP I wouldn't apologise for acting for the interests of the citizens of my country.

If I were a German MEP I'd be appalled by the incompetence and refusal to accept blame shown by the EU.

@Haffiana - the UK people and government already have waited for issues with their supply to be resolved, without throwing tantrums. You clearly don't know what Peter Liese said, a UK MP speaking in such an inflammatory way would be ripped apart in our media never mind here, and would expect party disciplinary action: "Darren McCaffrey on Twitter: "💥German MEP Peter Liese, who sits on the Health Committee, tells me European Union citizens will not be treated as second class If AstraZeneca don’t change course, it will face consequences and so will UK “better think twice” - including blocking Pfizer exports t.co/xaBLrisOH5" / Twitter" mobile.twitter.com/DarrenEuronews/status/1354483646602817540.

The writing has been on the wall for the approval for weeks now - it was reported in Austrian media days before any supply issues were even mentioned. It’s been obvious ever since the US FDA said they wouldn’t be approving AZ any time soon that there were troubling gaps in the data.

This has nothing to do with humility or feelings or pride or anything. Adequate data is just not there. People need to get a grip.

@IcedPurple

This is another classic Boris strategy - just give the oldies the vaccine early in the hopes that it will work just as well for them

I wasn't aware Boris was a member of the MHRA.

The same MHRA who recently told the government to piss off and exposed brazen lying by the government on lateral flow tests for use in schools.

That MHRA.

@lljkk

If AZ vaccine is so ineffective, why are Germany making a fuss about getting extra doses?

Because even 50% is useful. As demonstrated by our UK government happily taking the risk of giving everyone only one dose for 12 weeks, when the evidence doesn't support it.

@HoldMeCloserTonyDanza

The writing has been on the wall for the approval for weeks now - it was reported in Austrian media days before any supply issues were even mentioned. It’s been obvious ever since the US FDA said they wouldn’t be approving AZ any time soon that there were troubling gaps in the data.

This has nothing to do with humility or feelings or pride or anything. Adequate data is just not there. People need to get a grip.

What grip is missing?

No one here is over emotional about this, look to German MEPs for that.

Demand is there, excess demand currently.