Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

I like Bill.

I feel aggrieved that a portion of the world's paranoid people think he's a flippin Bond villain.

I was reading rhe Spanish news. Most of the areas have had to stopped vaccinating new people as are running out of vaccines

Moderna has said they’re also delaying this weeks vaccine.

I like Bill.

I feel aggrieved that a portion of the world's paranoid people think he's a flippin Bond villain.

Yes so do I. I've even stuck with Microsoft through the dodgy Windows versions despite DH raving about Apple.

@Baileysforchristmas

The EU might not approve AZ vaccine after all this.

Fine - more for us!

"The EU might not approve AZ vaccine after all this."
That would be very funny, to be fair.

They will approve it! That have scientific experts looking at it and not journalists

*they

Who wouldn’t approve a vaccine which after one dose is 100% effective against hospitalisation

@MRex it would be bloody hilarious.

I suggested on one of these threads that, were I AZ I would simply withdraw the application for approval and leave the EU to it. I don't quite mean that - it would be elderly and vulnerable Europeans that would suffer, and it's not their fault. But it would rather hoist the EU on their own petard if their own regulatory process proved the barrier.

was anyone else watching the press briefing with the EU's Stella Kyriakides? I found it quite chilling. 'yes, we will expect the UK to export to us'. No mention of generally fucking up all round.
I realise that the EU is getting a load of grief from member countries, but it isn't showing itself to any advantage IMO

Yes I saw that, especially when she said we are (UK) putting EU lives at risk, it’s all our fault

@Motorina - yes, I saw that. Big pharma can play very rough commercially and it's a very unfair situation on Astrazeneca. I'd hinted a fair bit as well about the contract not being complete until EMA approval. I'd need to see the contract, but as AZ I'd be very tempted to say "Contract not workable. Here's how you've broken clauses on timeframes, working relationship and confidentiality. Here's how you've slandered our reputation for good measure. What we'll do now is withdraw from seeking EMA approval and return all funds effective today. Any EU27 can give emergency use authorisation, sign a contract this week in the same format for the number of vaccines they would otherwise get at the same cost plus an allowance for the legal bill you just caused, and we'll honour their vaccines. Any EU27 who don't want the vaccine is welcome to withdraw."
I don't think they will, but they may at least threaten, and I'd really enjoy it if they did.

It benefits none of us if the EU doesn't get its vaccine delivery back on track ASAP thought. This really shot not be a time for nationalism and crowing; despite the possible temptation.

Sorry for typos

It benefits none of us if the EU doesn't get its vaccine delivery back on track ASAP thought. This really shot not be a time for nationalism and crowing; despite the possible temptation.

No, it doesn't.

But lies and threats benefit no one either.

@Baileysforchristmas

Yes I saw that, especially when she said we are (UK) putting EU lives at risk, it’s all our fault

I think most their citizens will see right through that though. People around the world understand political scapegoating

It looks like Pfizer expect to be back delivering in a week and with the extra production from mid February. There's a Pfizer Biontec plant in Marburg, Germany coming on line end February/ early March so that overall in first quarter 2021 they'll be able supplying more than expected and substantially more on second quarter.

Fingers crossed.

@tobee

It benefits none of us if the EU doesn't get its vaccine delivery back on track ASAP thought. This really shot not be a time for nationalism and crowing; despite the possible temptation.

True

They started it though 😝

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

It benefits none of us if the EU doesn't get its vaccine delivery back on track ASAP thought. This really shot not be a time for nationalism and crowing; despite the possible temptation.

No, it doesn't.

But lies and threats benefit no one either.

Well exactly; I agree. I'm not talking about us on here especially. Rather everyone and everywhere.

Also those he think we're nationalistic on here should have a look at Daily Mail comments for an eye opener!

when she said we are (UK) putting EU lives at risk, it’s all our fault

How dare she. The bullying is really ramping up.

And the German MEP who is threatening the UK and telling us to get ready to 'suffer the consequences'!! Wtf. The UK has done nothing wrong.

@MRex that's a sufficiently delightful post that I read it three times. Thank you.

Even having huge amounts of Pfizer is probably going to be problematic for the EU.

Its a question of logistics and this is where AZ wins hands down.

To illustrate the point: Italy has a limited number of vaccination sites. These are all in hospitals and this reflects storage issues. As it needs -70C it can't just be delivered anywhere. This is also one reason why UK roll out was slow at first until AZ came online. Pfizer is much more limited in where it can be administered. And when you need to vaccinate the entire population in a very short time frame thats a real issue.

Realistically AZ offers something that Pfizer can't. Even if its not quite as effective. And it'll be a reason why the EU will be extremely keen to get some even if they can scale up Pfizer production (Sanofi has now said they will produce some - why the fuck this wasn't in planning earlier is beyond me - it smacks of being slow off the mark).

I would imagine there is a certain awareness of this. Turning the tap off on Pfizer going to the UK perhaps wouldn't be the smartest move for this reason.

I think that Johnson would not back down in a vaccine trade war. Just on principle.

Also Pfizer isn't just made in the EU. I've said this before that when the Trump turned down supplies from Pfizer which then were offered to the EU which they tookup where were this doses being made? The US.

So if the UK contract is robust it may still require delivery from the US if the EU supply chain is knocked out. Given the risk of No Deal it would have been prudent for the UK to have made deals which offered a none EU supply route in emergency - my point being, if the UK was on the ball, they will have considered this.

Irony klaxon: The EU might therefore need us more than we need them.

We will see how this pans out.

Sanofi were presumably hoping to get their own vaccine into production but they've gone back to "tweak it" ( bluffing alert!) Leaving them some bottling capacity to donate.

@RedToothBrush exactly i think a compromise will be made from the UK government, it will look even better on us as we come to the rescue. The UK government are playing this very cool, letting the EU show it’s true colours first. We will see, if the EU pulls it’s finger out and actually approves the vaccine.