What is the impact on children of the months of school closures in your view?

[MTBer2021]

It seems there's a huge range of views on this and partly depends on how much your child's school is offering and whether or not there's an adult at home to spend time supervising home learning etc.

I am surprised that some well educated parents I know are so relaxed about the impact on their young children of months of school closures. People whose child would ordinarily never miss a day of school other than due to genuine illness (no term time holidays etc) but who seem very relaxed about how the current situation won't mean their children fall behind at all.

There are some people endlessly saying that children are so resilient and how in other countries they don't even start school until age 6 or 7 so there's nothing to worry about..... and there are also those who are desperate to get kids back maybe before it's even safe and teachers who worry about kids who are doing little to no home learning for various reasons.

There are ways to manage home learning for some and I know some kids are happier at home than at school but is it really a popular and informed opinion that the current situation will have no lasting impact on kids and can all be easily remedied when schools open (whenever that is) and with no specific catch up programme?

I'm dismayed by it OP and my DC are in the most privileged category, with good school online learning provision and their own computers and headsets. It's not the same as being at school though, not even close. They miss their friends, they are missing out on sport and social interaction. I'm just so gutted that they missed an entire term last year and it now looks like they will miss another this year. It's compounded by the fact that neither of my DC (Yrs 5 and 8) are in years that the government considers a priority, so they didn't get to go back during the summer term and if anyone gets to go back after half-term this term once again it will be early years and exam years (I'm not saying those year groups aren't a priority - I'm saying they ALL are).

Primary DC have been shown time and again to not be a huge risk for transmission of Covid, so why the hell aren't primary schools being told they can go all back asap? AFAIK it's DC aged 12+ who have been shown to transmit the virus more like adults. I'm developing an irrational hatred of Gavin Williamson

I'm with you @zafferana. I struggle to understand the resilience/ they'll all catch up argument and asked a similar question to the one you're posing here on a different thread last week. In ordinary times, our primary's attendance target is 97%, presumably because it's deemed necessary for the kids to be in school nearly all the time in order to have proper access to the whole curriculum/ social experience that school provides.

@zafferana

I'm dismayed by it OP and my DC are in the most privileged category, with good school online learning provision and their own computers and headsets. It's not the same as being at school though, not even close. They miss their friends, they are missing out on sport and social interaction. I'm just so gutted that they missed an entire term last year and it now looks like they will miss another this year. It's compounded by the fact that neither of my DC (Yrs 5 and 8) are in years that the government considers a priority, so they didn't get to go back during the summer term and if anyone gets to go back after half-term this term once again it will be early years and exam years (I'm not saying those year groups aren't a priority - I'm saying they ALL are).

Primary DC have been shown time and again to not be a huge risk for transmission of Covid, so why the hell aren't primary schools being told they can go all back asap? AFAIK it's DC aged 12+ who have been shown to transmit the virus more like adults. I'm developing an irrational hatred of Gavin Williamson

Data?

Link?

I am so stressed about it. I don't feel DD (6) is getting a good deal on the days I'm working. I am anxious she'll fall behind the kids who are still able to go to school and get regular lessons with a qualified teacher. I do as much as I can with her but sometimes there are unavoidable work commitments. I also feel that this situation is leading to me becoming a less good parent than I want to be - I'm permanently tired and irritable from burning the candle both ends and it is tiring keeping up a positive front for her.

As an only child, she is also missing out on so much social interaction, and her various sports/dance activities. I understand kids are resilient, and last time after lockdown, when she returned to school, things were great and I felt she bounced back.

But this time, I just feel the total time off school is such a huge chunk when she's so little, and she's missed such a valuable part of her childhood. One year is very much like another at my age, and although there have been a couple of things/people I've missed, I'm largely content to stay at home. But she's missing out on things that only happen when you are little, and things you can never go back and really catch up on (whole class birthday parties, nativities, that kind of thing). She's started to worry that she'll never see her grandparents again, and that she won't be back at school for the rest of the year. Sadly I can't really reassure on her either count.

Just posted this as part of a much longer post on the ‘My 5-year-old’s future’ thread:

If the attitude of ‘kids are resilient’ becomes dominant then the resources and support for them won’t be there.

I completely agree with this. We can’t help our kids and young people unless we’re prepared to admit there’s a problem coming down the line, but at the moment many people are refusing to see it. As soon as someone tentatively suggests that we need a plan to reopen schools safely, they’re shouted down with cries of BUT THE VIRUS!; DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO DIE?; BUT IT’S THE KIDS WHO ARE SPREADING IT! (Just read the replies to Devi Sridhar’s tweet from earlier today.) I’ve seen many mental health professionals, charity workers and child psychologists tweeting about what they’re seeing and trying to spark discussions in the wider media, but what they’re saying is either falling on deaf ears, or met with ‘Shame about the kids but people are dying/we need to protect the NHS’. Many of our kids are indeed resilient, but this isn’t just about them individually; it’s about the kind of world they’re going to be facing once this is all over. Essentially everyone’s in Covid panic mode right now, but we urgently need to switch to planning mode if we’re going to avert a further generational crisis once the pandemic itself is over

I’m amazed about the way the generational impact of school closures (and other restrictions directly impacting young people) is being minimised and explained away. It may be, as many people are quick to assert, that there is no alternative. But to think lockdowns and massively disrupted education won’t have a severe long term impact on young people as a cohort (in spite of the individual success stories of ‘resilience’ that we often read about on here) is frankly for the birds. We need to start thinking about the landscape our young people will be facing post-Covid and come up with some sort of plan to help them.

@zafferana 'Primary DC have been shown time and again to not be a huge risk for transmission of Covid, so why the hell aren't primary schools being told they can go all back asap? AFAIK it's DC aged 12+ who have been shown to transmit the virus more like adults. I'm developing an irrational hatred of Gavin Williamson'

Any data on this, any evidence.

Any thought of the teaching staff who it will have a great affect on if they catch it.... no? What a surprise

Summary of various data showing: that return to schools in Aug/Sept 2020 was not responsible for the increased rates of SARS-CoV-2 and also that children do not appear to be the causes of transmission in households.
[[https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-in-children-and-the-role-of-school-settings-in-transmission-first-update_0.pdf]]

Also see comments in testimony given by Jenny Harries, the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, to the Commons select committee.

Any thought of the teaching staff who it will have a great affect on if they catch it.... no? What a surprise

Teachers shown to be at no greater risk of catching SARS-CoV-2 than the general population.

But even if they were, there is a valid argument to say that we need to ask teachers to put themselves at the increased risk, in the same way that we have asked medical professionals, care home staff, food production workers etc etc because the costs of school closures are potentially worth it.

I completely recognise that this isn't an easy argument, and that at an individual level, it is really tough to ask teachers to make this sacrifice, but we have had no problem asking nurses to take these risks, so why should it be any different for teachers?

Sorry, broken link. Try this one

www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/COVID-19-in-children-and-the-role-of-school-settings-in-transmission-first-update_0.pdf

The stuff about kids not transmitting it was before the new variant. That changed stuff on schools completely, as although it’s still unclear there is a reasonable likelihood that children have become transmission drivers. I’d like that not to be the case, obviously.

I think with the impact on kids, people are seeing very different situation not just depending on their home circumstances and home learning quality, but their kids’ personalities. My school age child is self-motivated and although he misses the socialising it’s not to such a great extent that it’s damaging him. He is happy enough with socially distanced walks and online contact. My nursery age child is much more affected by lack of social contact, but not to an extent that I think it will be damaging long-term. She was back to herself after a few weeks back at nursery last time. Other children are clearly very differently affected and I think we’ll need to make sure there’s more funding put into supporting them long-term.

I'm really struggling to accept the schools being closed for the forseeable. I think it is wrong and morally reprehensible.

I watch my dcs struggle more each day. They are teenagers and should not be cooped up with parents for extended periods of time with no exit date. Their mental health is deteriorating fast with the new announcements - they can see there is no end in sight.

People who think it is acceptable are selfish. Since when were our children's needs so low down on the list?

Any thought of the teaching staff who it will have a great affect on if they catch it.... no? What a surprise

Oh God the 'WHAT ABOUT THE TEACHERS?' crew are here.

The teachers at my DC's schools want to get back to school too. How do I know this? I'm friends with one of them and she says they all hate online teaching, can see how the DC are falling behind and would much rather be back in the classrooms. We had ZERO cases of Covid in our school. Yes, ZERO. She also said that the teaching union she was, until last week, a member of was urging her in regular emails to refuse to go into work. She has cancelled her membership as a result.

I am worried about it. Not for my kids personally (there are several of them, we have a lovely home and garden, plenty of food, are quite rich in time) in terms of their development, but the way it's creating a tier system of kids with 1:1 or close to parental support - perhaps a SAHP - and good resources at home (including but not exclusive to devices, books, art materials, food). Next you have the ones in school, then the ones at home with little more than a watchful eye to get them out of the house in the case of a fire. I think it's widening inequality and the burden, and in future the blame, is falling on women.

I said on another thread that homeschooling is all the bad bits of school - rigid timetable, tick box approach - and none of the joy. It's also the bad bits of home ed - risk of isolation, potential for covering up of safeguarding issues - and none of the spontanaeity, following kids' interests, parental enpowerment or slightly off-beat feeling of happiness at having "stuck it to the man."

@AnnaForbes

I'm really struggling to accept the schools being closed for the forseeable. I think it is wrong and morally reprehensible.

I watch my dcs struggle more each day. They are teenagers and should not be cooped up with parents for extended periods of time with no exit date. Their mental health is deteriorating fast with the new announcements - they can see there is no end in sight.

People who think it is acceptable are selfish. Since when were our children's needs so low down on the list?

I agree

@Dontwanttooutmyself

*Any thought of the teaching staff who it will have a great affect on if they catch it.... no? What a surprise*

Teachers shown to be at no greater risk of catching SARS-CoV-2 than the general population.

But even if they were, there is a valid argument to say that we need to ask teachers to put themselves at the increased risk, in the same way that we have asked medical professionals, care home staff, food production workers etc etc because the costs of school closures are potentially worth it.

I completely recognise that this isn't an easy argument, and that at an individual level, it is really tough to ask teachers to make this sacrifice, but we have had no problem asking nurses to take these risks, so why should it be any different for teachers?

Of course you can't ask teachers to make an unnecessary sacrifice. Risk their health for other people's kids? No.

If better safety measures were introduced into schools - everyone masked, proper ventilation, social distancing enforced (even if it means part time schooling) I'm sure they would be willing, in the main.

But to expect them to take a risk with their health when there are ways to lessen the risk just isn't on.

Also hospitals have full PPE and are essential. Kids can stay safe and learn from home.

I’m very stressed. My DD, year 10, was only on target to get a couple of GCSE’s before the pandemic. I seriously doubt she’ll get any now. On line learning is a joke. She has dyslexia and needs face to face teaching. She absolutely will not catch up.

My son, Year 9, started GCSE’s in September, he’s doing ok but probably won’t get the grades he would have done.

My DS is 4 and an only child. We are, on the face of it, really quite privileged. I was a primary teacher before I had him and am working only one day a week. Academically he is actually progressing far quicker than he was before Christmas.

We also live in rural North Wales and have mountains, hills, lakes, forests etc accessible from our front door, so, although we do have a small backyard, we have beautiful and engaging scenery to walk in.

DS is really struggling. The rules in Wales state that we aren’t allowed to meet anyone outside our household - even children. DS didn’t see another child from 16th December until last weekend when we saw another child from his school in the playground. He’s anxious and so, so clingy.

Our school is being brilliant regarding online learning. 3 x half hour class sessions online, plus 2 x small group sessions per week. 8-11 activities set at the beginning of the week as well, differentiated, with short feedback on the hand in section and longer feedback emailed personally. Our teacher also posts things she thinks they will like, songs, short videos, games etc.

We recognise that we are privileged through this but my god, my son is missing out.

Academically I think my kids will be ok - but they are in a very privileged position, private school with good online provision, tech and other resources available, quiet space and me as a well educated SAHM to help them through it. Most children are not in this situation and absolutely will be behind.

Socially I’m not sure. DD age 8 is very angry at the world, lots of door slamming and shouting and bursting into tears. DD age 5 is sunnier mostly but goes shy whenever she has to speak to her class on screen - she has never been shy in her life, was always very outgoing. Also bursting into tears a lot.

I’m also very worried about the lack of exercise. DD has mild cerebral palsy and the loss of the school run, school playtimes and PE (not to mention cancelled physio sessions) is taking its toll on her body. Yes in theory I could get her to do exercise, and I do as much as possible, but she’s much harder to persuade when there is no destination/need and no friends involved.

I think this is all a massive social experiment tbh and we won’t see the full effects for years. I also worry that another virus will emerge in a few years and it’s not sustainable to do this every time. Ultimately I think we are a little like King Canute’s advisers saying he could hold back the tide.

Impact is that DD is getting almost no education because her school are failing at remote provision and both DH and I work in CW roles but have been denied a space in the bubble as they have decided only to allow public sector CW children. DD is getting very little from school. The social impact we are trying to mitigate with childcare bubble and outdoor activities as well as online. It's the education that is not happening. Nobody seems to think this is remotely important though.

I think sometimes there's a disconnect between what we might say is necessary 'because COVID', and the very real impact of that, which is the same whether or not COVID. Suddenly there are things that would in normal times be quite rightly flagged as bad parenting, maybe even neglect, that are happening all over the place at the moment. We can say it's justified under pandemic conditions, but the fact it's due to a pandemic doesn't change the actual impact on children, the outcome remains the same no matter the cause.

Ours seem ok at the moment.

Clearly can't guess the long term effects. Hopefully they will just bounce back and do what the school expects of them.

We will just have to pick up the pieces if, as and when.

I also don't understand the "kids are resilient" argument. Resilient to how much, exactly? Where is the line with this? It's a poor argument imo.. Children being "resilient" to lack of education, social deprivation vital for their social and psychological development, possible safeguarding against domestic abuse at home, missing out on School meals so also potential malnutrition...

There's no humane way of defending these impacts, but this "they're resilient" argument attempts to do exactly that, when it doesn't even hold up anyway. Childhood hardship of the kind we're seeing unfold could realistically give way to serious trauma and long-term health consequences that outlive the pandemic itself.

I struggle understanding how easily people explain this away under any reason than a complete ignorance of how children actually develop, and being out of touch with the stark reality many are facing. The suffering of many families is also "invisible" due to lockdown because people aren't even coming into contact with them or seeing what they're going through.

@AnnaForbes

I'm really struggling to accept the schools being closed for the forseeable. I think it is wrong and morally reprehensible.

I watch my dcs struggle more each day. They are teenagers and should not be cooped up with parents for extended periods of time with no exit date. Their mental health is deteriorating fast with the new announcements - they can see there is no end in sight.

People who think it is acceptable are selfish. Since when were our children's needs so low down on the list?

I've had so much opposition from some family and on social media because I think school should open. Watching my teen sit alone week after week is not acceptable

I keep seeing 2 points made on other social media platforms (well Facebook)-

One is that in other countries kids don’t start school until 7 yet aren’t behind compared to us

Another is that many families homeschool even in ‘normal’ times with healthy thriving and well-educated kids

See this over and over again and just think it really is NOT the same thing.

Kids being shut up in houses with no outside interaction, events planned with other kids, parents who are working from home simultaneously etc etc etc is NOT the same thing as people who have chosen to homeschool or children starting school at 7 (who probably spend the years prior to that playing and learning with other kids just not formal school!)

@Thefeep

I’m very stressed. My DD, year 10, was only on target to get a couple of GCSE’s before the pandemic. I seriously doubt she’ll get any now. On line learning is a joke. She has dyslexia and needs face to face teaching. She absolutely will not catch up.

My son, Year 9, started GCSE’s in September, he’s doing ok but probably won’t get the grades he would have done.

My DS is year 10. So many people have told me it's not an important year. I'm fuming. He's only on track for low grade GCSE due to some SEN. He will never "catch up " now. People forget that they had their childhood and freedom

My DS had his sixth form A level courses cut short last March. His school simply stopped any form of teaching once they knew his A levels were cancelled, so he missed the final sections of his courses.

That's had quite an impact on his Uni degree which he started in September. He was doing Maths and Economics A levels (plus Physics), and is now doing a Maths/Economics degree. He's really struggled with some modules that assumed a prior knowledge, particularly Maths where the module has carried on from where it was assumed the A level course left off but of course there's a gap. Uni offered no help at all when he pointed it out to them and asked for more help/support. Like I say, his school made no attempt whatsoever to finish the courses as they should have done. He's been left to find his own you tube videos or similar to teach himself the gaps, which just added to his workload.