What is the impact on children of the months of school closures in your view?

[MTBer2021]

It seems there's a huge range of views on this and partly depends on how much your child's school is offering and whether or not there's an adult at home to spend time supervising home learning etc.

I am surprised that some well educated parents I know are so relaxed about the impact on their young children of months of school closures. People whose child would ordinarily never miss a day of school other than due to genuine illness (no term time holidays etc) but who seem very relaxed about how the current situation won't mean their children fall behind at all.

There are some people endlessly saying that children are so resilient and how in other countries they don't even start school until age 6 or 7 so there's nothing to worry about..... and there are also those who are desperate to get kids back maybe before it's even safe and teachers who worry about kids who are doing little to no home learning for various reasons.

There are ways to manage home learning for some and I know some kids are happier at home than at school but is it really a popular and informed opinion that the current situation will have no lasting impact on kids and can all be easily remedied when schools open (whenever that is) and with no specific catch up programme?

Arse*!!

[quote Kitcat122]@Zafferana I work in a primary school. We had one Covid case before Christmas. The first week back with KW children 11 people in my bubble tested positive. 8 of them children. The rest TAs. Most of the parents now have it and the TAs families. I have 4 children at home. I really wish they were were at school but at present it is not safe.[/quote]
To be clear @Kitcat122, I think the government did the right thing by closing schools in early January for the vast majority of DC - they had to. Cases here in the SE were out of control and the wave of infections nationwide since then has very nearly overwhelmed the NHS. That was at least partly driven by the stupid idea to let three families mix freely over Christmas in most areas of the UK, but whatever, that ship has sailed.

What I'm dismayed by is the lack of an exit plan. Last time, schools were closed in March and most DC didn't go back until September and the simple fact is that they could've gone back after the May half-term, but they didn't because other types of business, such as hospitality and travel, were prioritised over schools. So people could go off to Spain and Greece on holiday, but most DC didn't set foot in school for 4.5 months. There was uproar in the media by then about the government's fucked up priorities and the govt said that wouldn't happen again and schools would be the very first thing to go back, not the last. Yet here we are past the peak of the second wave and there doesn't appear to be a plan or a set of criteria for when schools can go back - at least not one they're prepared to share with the public.

People need HOPE, they need to know that when we get to X point in new infections/hospital admissions that DC can go back to school. At the moment, the message is 'not for the foreseeable' and 'when it happens it will only be certain year groups' (the same ones as last year, so the same other year groups are given the message that their education and MH is unimportant). And this week the press has been full of rumours that it won't be until May at the earliest and even then many year groups may be left at home. It's an outrage!

I don't think there are any easy answers.

I'm beyond worrying about my son's education atm, as his mental health has taken such a downturn.

I'm keen for him to get stuck into his lessons as best he can, as it's something to do, something to focus on. But his actual performance has taken a back seat as I try to help him navigate feeling really really low.

They do need schooling, focus, and teacher support but for us it's time to show my son that it's not the 'be all and end all', that it is ok to back off a bit and do whatever he can get through this time.

I feel maybe it's time to acknowledge that this really is horrific for kids, and have a kinder, more pragmatic approach rather than trying to recreate the impossible.

I know it's too complicated but I wish they could somehow repeat this year, and take the home learning focus off the curriculum and into some learning that might be helpful at this time- a great book rather than Chaucer, watching Brian Cox followed by discussion rather than dry PowerPoints on forces for example.

I also feel huge amounts of guilt for leaving my son alone day after day because I have to work. So maybe my view is skewed.

@Chaotic45 I completely agree that a different approach is needed and also wish that they could repeat the year again come Sep. The rest of this year could be used to catch up on last years missed work and perhaps focus on other things- life skills, IT, creativity, wellbeing, sport etc. We are absolutely kidding ourselves if we think that it can just be business as usual when they return and the pressure on teachers and kids will be enormous on top of everything else that they have been through.

I find it morally reprehensible that we are letting this continue.

I have posted many times about this on here since the pandemic started and mostly was shot down mostly as a Teacher killer, often a Granny Murderer.

There are so many aspects to it that are just so wrong...and I really think we have lost our sense of priority for the Greater Good. Whichever way you want to look at it, old and sick people are not the priority for a functioning society that has finite resources - children are. If anyone cannot admit that to themselves, they really need to do some work on themselves - it is a fact of life that you will have to face at some point as you too become aged and/or ill and you cannot hide from this forever.

It should have been an absolute non-negotiable to close schools. Just make it work with whatever it takes - more testing, teacher vaccinations, even partial attendance - one week in one week off. It was never beyond the wit of man to achieve at least more than we are doing now.

Parents who shouted for the closure of schools, quite frankly, are selfish beyond reason. You simply do not sacrifice children for your own wellbeing.

You simply do not sacrifice children for your own wellbeing.

Yeah, I'm horrifically selfish. I mean how selfish of me wanting to stop having to choose which patients I take in my ICU. Or which patients we leave sitting outside a&e in an ambulance because we have no beds. I'm selfish for wanting people who have heart attacks, strokes and road traffic accidents to be able to access care. I want our children's ICU without adults in the beds, incase a child needs it.

Yeah, I'm really selfish.

@WatchWatch

You simply do not sacrifice children for your own wellbeing.

Yeah, I'm horrifically selfish. I mean how selfish of me wanting to stop having to choose which patients I take in my ICU. Or which patients we leave sitting outside a&e in an ambulance because we have no beds. I'm selfish for wanting people who have heart attacks, strokes and road traffic accidents to be able to access care. I want our children's ICU without adults in the beds, incase a child needs it.

Yeah, I'm really selfish.

I find that post very hyperbolic, given that the NHS has been having to make difficult decisions about what care is appropriate for patients for it's entire existence.

You speak as if this is a new thing that medics have to do and we have always, until Coronavirus, had unlimited resource for all our citizens and everyone got an ICU bed when they needed it.

Children should remain a priority and they have not been a priority, or actually even been considered in policy making. I am not sure you could claim that the NHS has not been considered in policy making, in fact it has been the basis of all policy making

@SilverGlitterBaubles thank you for understanding. Your ideas are great.

I guess this won't be considered though. As to do some would mean admitting how bad things are instead of soldering on like the boy with his finger in the hole in the dam.

hamstersarse

Not like this we haven't. My hospital has managed to increase acute bed capacity by 40% and we have 2 temporary, emergency ICUs and yet still it was a 9 hour wait to be admitted last Saturday. We had ambulances queuing up outside with patients in them for 9 hours!

I've been a Dr now for 10 years, based predominantly in a hospital, mainly working with the elderly so flu season I get hit hard. But never this hard. I've been moved to ICU and honestly at points we've literally been waiting for someone to die to prevent a different person dying.

Yes, we've always had resource allocation issues but again, nothing like this. People are dying of heart attacks that they'd almost always survive pre covid, simply because we can't get to them in time, not the ambulance and not medics once they get to the hospital. It's not just COVID killing people.

hamstersarse

And I've never, ever, even heard of adults being put in paediatric ICU, it just doesn't happen. Paeds is almost sacred, you don't use their resources. But we are doing now.

Yet again, the way these threads go, the govt is let off the hook at every turn.

It doesn't matter whether parents 'cry to close schools' or 'cry to open schools' - the govt does whatever it wants.

Like the NHS, the roots of the problem in education are years of systematic underfunding and top-down management,.

An education system in its knees and an NHS on the bones of its arse didn't just happen.

And yet again, posters who are directly involved in the day-to-day of life under covid in health and education are belittled, chided for being hyperbolic and their points minimised.

Sorry that's just confirming what WatchWatch is saying.

@christinarossetti19 I hear your point, but we must at least be allowed to acknowledge that DCs are impacted by not being at school - if that's our experience- provided we don't then leap to the lets open schools right now.

I actually think it's right that schools are closed at the minute, as infected rates are to high to make it sustainable for them to be open.However I would expect the government to be working on a priority plan to get them back open as soon as it is safe to do so.

too high even

@MTBer2021

You've said it, it's months, not years. They will catch up

I wasnt aware there were a " huge range of views " . I thought all parents agreed that children's education is suffering and also they are missing interactions with their friends . No matter how great the online lessons are I cannot think of one scenario where this is better than them being at school.
We all know the pandemic reasons behind it but I'm sure all parents are unanimous in saying this is not the best thing for their kids .

[quote trulydelicious]@MTBer2021

You've said it, it's months, not years. They will catch up[/quote]
@trulydelicious I'm way beyond worrying about catching up on school work and much more concerned about clawing back mental health.

That's not at all simple and I worry about long lasting ongoing damage.

[quote trulydelicious]@MTBer2021

You've said it, it's months, not years. They will catch up[/quote]
It's no about catching up at all it's a much bigger picture for these children. There mental health is very worrying.
I still can't believe we have to justify why we want them back in school.

[quote rookiemere]@christinarossetti19 I hear your point, but we must at least be allowed to acknowledge that DCs are impacted by not being at school - if that's our experience- provided we don't then leap to the lets open schools right now.

I actually think it's right that schools are closed at the minute, as infected rates are to high to make it sustainable for them to be open.However I would expect the government to be working on a priority plan to get them back open as soon as it is safe to do so.[/quote]
Of course children are impacted by not being at school.

It would be great if the government were working on ways to open schools safely as soon as possible.

You know, if they were actually doing their job.

As with everything there will be winners and losers here. But I don't think most children will be affected too much. From what I understand most schools are approx 25%-50% capacity atm, then you have those students who are at home but doing ok with home learning. Those who might not do ok at home but will be able to catch up. And yes unfortunately some that will be negatively impacted and won't be able to catch up without significant support. Same for the social side of school life. This is just my opinion of course, based on what I'm seeing and hearing around here and from friends elsewhere in the country.

Schools closures have an impact that goes beyond merely totting up the number of days they were off and saying "There, they are only XYZ days behind!"

The problem is more about the lack of contact with schooling to help children maintain the knowledge and skills they have. Long periods of no contact or very little contact with learning causes loss of previously learned content, not just failure to move ahead with new content. It's why the US's very long school holidays (10-12 weeks) are known to cause severe issues for kids from poor backgrounds.

And knowledge is cumulative, especially in subjects like maths where everything builds on what has gone before. If your tables are shaky, it's harder to learn division. If you don't master division and other processes, you'll struggle with algebra later on. Etc.

Teachers who are faced with a huge "spread" of attainment will struggle to teach the whole class, leading to disruption from bored and frustrated pupils. The learning loss continues and gets worse. Some kids fall further behind, which then makes them even less prepared to succeed with the next year's work. Everyone gets stuck in a vicious cycle.

I'm not saying this to make a case for "schools must go back right now" (they can't) but to make a case for "schools must go back once the vaccine is well rolled out and mortality and hospitalization levels are very low, with no more moving of goalposts." Zero COVID is not going to be happening.

The government was forced to close schools, in the midst of an out of control surging mutant, they wanted them open and told us all they were safe and the best place for them.

They made them go in for one day...

What makes anyone think they won't open them as soon as they can? It's extremely clear that they didn't want to shut them.

I guess some people think this will go on forever. I don't feel like it will, even as we live along side covid and probably have more lock downs next winter. I see all these measures as very short term to get us all out of this mess whilst simultaneously vaccinating.

So therefore I don't see long term effects on most dc at all.

• most schools as a basic provide some provision, and some interaction each day.

Ofsted wants to know about the ones that don't.

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

The government was forced to close schools, in the midst of an out of control surging mutant, they wanted them open and told us all they were safe and the best place for them.

They made them go in for one day...

What makes anyone think they won't open them as soon as they can? It's extremely clear that they didn't want to shut them.

I guess some people think this will go on forever. I don't feel like it will, even as we live along side covid and probably have more lock downs next winter. I see all these measures as very short term to get us all out of this mess whilst simultaneously vaccinating.

So therefore I don't see long term effects on most dc at all.

This sort of attitude baffles me. Do you genuinely think that the many thousands of children left at home in difficult/chaotic/abusive/neglectful families with no interaction with other adults or children for months on end will suffer no long term effects?

Do people really live in a fantasy land where every family is loving and kind and every child is just having a bit of a boring time at home??? How can people have this extreme level of ignorance?

@TheDailyCarbunkle it's not just those homes where children are desperately struggling.

I don't think our family is disadvantaged, or difficult, but DS 14 is desperately struggling with the ongoing isolation from Lee's and teachers in school and difficult dry online learning alone day after day as I have to work.

The damage it has done to him is enormous, and there won't be a quick fix.

I do accept schools have to be closed, but that doesn't change the sadness that I feel at the effects of this.