What is the impact on children of the months of school closures in your view?

[MTBer2021]

It seems there's a huge range of views on this and partly depends on how much your child's school is offering and whether or not there's an adult at home to spend time supervising home learning etc.

I am surprised that some well educated parents I know are so relaxed about the impact on their young children of months of school closures. People whose child would ordinarily never miss a day of school other than due to genuine illness (no term time holidays etc) but who seem very relaxed about how the current situation won't mean their children fall behind at all.

There are some people endlessly saying that children are so resilient and how in other countries they don't even start school until age 6 or 7 so there's nothing to worry about..... and there are also those who are desperate to get kids back maybe before it's even safe and teachers who worry about kids who are doing little to no home learning for various reasons.

There are ways to manage home learning for some and I know some kids are happier at home than at school but is it really a popular and informed opinion that the current situation will have no lasting impact on kids and can all be easily remedied when schools open (whenever that is) and with no specific catch up programme?

I am also extremely worried. If you listen to indie sage, their are many outbreaks currently in primary age children down to the fact that there are too many keyworker places.
What I think people forget is that we have a new variant and absolutely very little science about how that transmits.
By opening schools fully we give the chance for the virus to mutate further. We have already been told the Brazilian one and thee other one are more resistant to the vaccine. This could have a serious impact on you, your children's life and wider society. I am DO tired with these threads that fail to realise this.

*So

What fucks me off even more is that when this fact is brought up, the response is usually that those children are on 'vulnerable' lists or have a social worker. The fact that people can be that unaware of how life is for some people absolutely blows my mind. Do people really believe that every child in an abusive/difficult homes situation has been identified and is on some sort of list? Really? Are people genuinely that thick?

Exactly. Having been in the private school system in the past, I know how many children from wealthy, privileged backgrounds can live with physical, sexual and emotional abuse at home. There is not a cats chance in hell that every child with a shitty home life has been identified.

@Fortherosesjoni70

I am also extremely worried. If you listen to indie sage, their are many outbreaks currently in primary age children down to the fact that there are too many keyworker places. What I think people forget is that we have a new variant and absolutely very little science about how that transmits. By opening schools fully we give the chance for the virus to mutate further. We have already been told the Brazilian one and thee other one are more resistant to the vaccine. This could have a serious impact on you, your children's life and wider society. I am DO tired with these threads that fail to realise this.

Links? Evidence? The links and evidence I've seen point to the opposite. Yes, its too soon to see what effects the variants are having on transmission, but the evidence before that says the opposite - schools do not increase transmisssion, especially primary schools.

I am incredibly worried about it. I am so so angry that this is being allowed. Kids are being allowed to suffer. My two will be ok, but only just. I worry about long-term impact to their health with less time doing sport and outdoor activities, including after school activities such as gymnastics and swimming. I worry for their social wellbeing with so much time away from friends. This isn't fair on them. It is so outrageously unfair. The Government needs to give a definite date by which they will be back (before end of term) and then just make it happen. The balance of risk by that point must surely fall in favour of kids' education regardless of COVID numbers, particularly given how fast the vaccine is being rolled out.

Now I am waiting for someone to come along and say what about the NHS and I won't be saying this if I end up in an ambulance needing medical attention. But yes I would be saying that! We must sacrifice for the younger generation, not the other way around. This is disgraceful.

I'm not happy about it but we fall into the lucky category, we have sufficient IT and internet bandwidth and the school provision is good. Dc are only Y1 and Y3 so young enough to catch up. We can flex work to help them do the work every day. So in the grand scheme of things there are a lot of kids that need to be in school more than mine do. However dd1 really struggled without seeing her friends last year so I'm a bit concerned about how long this closure is going to be.

We are seeing massive MH fall out in our circle of friends ranging from actual suicide, anorexia and severe self harm (teens are 15&16) All doing GCSEs.
I am terrified that they will never recover.

I am so angry that so many children are being left to suffer like this, that I have to stop joining threads, because I am so so furious that a whole generation of children are being left to fall to pieces.

This isnt permanent - school will return.

For children in the first few years at primary/secondary, yes as they're not missing much and can catch up. But for those coming to the end of their primary or secondary school years, they'll be missing things that can never be recovered. Particularly for those in GCSE/A level exam years where they may not achieve their potential in terms of exam grades, which may well impact their entire working life/career. Also, missing out on school proms, leavers do's, etc.

The impact on my nephews has been good. They have learned to work autonomously and they read a lot more. They have more confidence, are rested and generally happier. Both of their parents work 10 and 14 years). They walk the dog and make lunch between lessons, supervised by a family member next door. They socialised in in the summer and Autumn term. They chat if they bump into friends as they walk the dog. All good.

If the attitude of ‘kids are resilient’ becomes dominant then the resources and support for them won’t be there

Absolutely. A lot of awful things could be justified with that sentence then...I just don’t understand it.

Now I am waiting for someone to come along and say what about the NHS and I won't be saying this if I end up in an ambulance needing medical attention. But yes I would be saying that! We must sacrifice for the younger generation, not the other way around.

This just seems silly and over-dramatic to me. There are currently many younger patients in ICUs, but the majority of them will survive thanks to the treatment that they get. If the NHS is overwhelmed, then there won't be enough beds for everyone, either for covid or non-covid patients. Many more younger patients will die, unnecessarily, because they simply won't have access to medical care.

If you had to choose between your kids losing a parent or going to school, would you really think that getting them back to school was worth it? Because if we open schools before it is safe and allow the virus to rip through the population, then it's highly likely that many parents will die.

Personally, I'd far rather put up with the less than ideal situation we have for a few more weeks/months than see loads of kids traumatised by the loss of a parent. I suspect that you'd rather make the sacrifice because you don't believe that your own family would be one of the ones hit.

To be clear, the issue isn't that you might end up in an ambulance needing medical attention, but rather that you might not end up in an ambulance when you do need medical attention, because there won't be any available.

@Dontwanttooutmyself
But you can ask a food production worker to risk his or her life for other peoples' stomachs? Or a care home worker to risk his / her life for other people's grannies?

What a very odd response. I didn't say that at all. Imagination on overload there?

By your argument, we should be closing care homes and sending the grannies back to their children's homes, regardless of how bad that would be for their mental or physical development.

No, that would be very stupid. I certainly didn't say that either. Why are you making things up?

We are in the middle of a global crisis and therefore we HAVE to ask people to make sacrifices.

No we don't. We can ensure that the maximum safety is put into schools, for staff and children then ask staff to go back to a safer environment. Why would you not agree with that? Do you want teachers to take unnecessary risks. It sounds like it.

Make all working environments as safe as possible. Not sure why you have a problem with safer schools. Maybe we should tell care home workers and nurses not to wear PPE, following your distorted logic.

My kids are exam years so will now have a lifetime of "Your A isn't a real A, it's a Corona A so doesn't count" attitude to their qualifications.

There will be an educational effect in primaries with those taking keyworker places being ahead socially and educationally compared to their peers at home.

I think that the social consequences are massive for all ages and allowing kids to be exempt from social distancing and allowing them to have outside contact like in Scotland would have been a good guideline to have.

So many people (including on here!) were seeing their friends and families under the rules but would vilify groups of teenagers doing the same thing. They would complain about teens hugging when they'd be passing toys and drinks to people not in their household too.

My kids are exam years so will now have a lifetime of "Your A isn't a real A, it's a Corona A so doesn't count" attitude to their qualifications

I wouldn't worry too much about that. In a few
Years when people are looking at CVs they aren't going to look at the exam dates/count back however many years and think that.

(I'm saying that as a parent of an 18 year old with cancelled BTEC exams this summer as well as the one A level he's doing alongside).

I'm on both sides tbh. I'm calm about it on a day to day basis because whipping myself into a frenzy won't help, and most kids will be in the same boat. I don't want to make this a stressful time for them. That's on a 'micro' level of you like.

But simultaneously, on a 'macro' scale I'm massively worried about the effect on kids of all ages, and think it needs to be addressed pronto. We can't keep schools shut for long.

This is the same point I made on another thread but.... the issue isn't open/closed. It's who should they be open to right now.

There are people on this thread who are pointing out that this isn't a disaster for their families and children. I'm another one. DD (11) is doing better than she does in class, and better than she would have done without the last lockdown.

This may, genuinely, have been the best thing that could have happened for her, in terms of her education. I can easily support this through to the end of the Academic year, if needed.

Now, we're lucky - I know we are - but we're not alone, and this is my point. There are children for whom schools need to be in. They need the support, the structure and the safety.

BUT there are children for whom staying at home to learn is not and will not be a disaster. For us, its not, and its actually less stressful than sending her in, not knowing if she'll have to isolate again (twice last term).

Surely, the logical thing to do is to identify those kids, keep supporting them as they currently are, and so make it safer to get schools open for the rest all the sooner.

It really doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing approach.

diana I am guessing you are just looking at SM and are not privvy to the true condition and suffering of your nephews. My children do exactly the same, the only difference is the tears, the nightmares, the anger and upset and the deeply stressful time they are having dealing with not seeing a single friend for over a month now. The loneliness, the lack of proper sports exercise, the misery of it all. You are seeing the insta version for sure!

@ginnybag my Ds would have failed his BTEC course if he was at college. He was miserable and not doing the work. He's on course for an overall distinction. So I get where you are coming from totally.

My eight year old is absolutely fine and working away herself no bother with school work and enjoying it. However my autistic five year old needs the structure of school and just isn't learning at home despite our best efforts. He gets amazing help at school and I'm raging that he isn't getting it right now. Lots of contact from his teacher and resource teacher but it's not the same. However both children are happy and safe in a nice home so I don't think there will be any severe long term consequences from this. There are far worse things that could have happened to them that's just my own personal opinion

I am guessing you are just looking at SM and are not privvy to the true condition and suffering of your nephews. My children do exactly the same, the only difference is the tears, the nightmares, the anger and upset and the deeply stressful time they are having dealing with not seeing a single friend for over a month now. The loneliness, the lack of proper sports exercise, the misery of it all. You are seeing the insta version for sure!

What an odd post. Do you know @Diana's nephews, seeing as you're able to pronounce so confidently on their "true condition and suffering"? Or are you just extrapolating from your own experience to assume that no kids are coping in the current situation? I'm genuinely sorry if your kids are experiencing tears, nightmares, anger and upset as a result of being at home, but this really isn't the case for all children. Many have adapted well, and even if they miss school and their friends, they are coping just fine. There is no reason to assume that @Diana's nephews are any different.

Some kids are doing better because of it.
Some kids its not going to change a lot.
Some kids its not helping problems that were already there
And for some kids its the evaporation of every opportunity (even if they were already limited) they had.

It certainly isn't a blanket 'its bad for all kids' though.

I think its highlighting the difference between working families and families where there is an available parent to aid a child's well being, and children with the maturity and independence that will help them thrive in the long term (I note the younger kids in DS's year seem to be struggling far more than the older ones) as well as traditional economic divides and learning difficulties.

I also think there is a reflection of some parents' attitude to education: some believe its the sole responsibility of the state to provide and don't get involved whereas others think its a joint responsibility between state and parents. This attitude is having an impact on how parents are responding to the situation in various ways. Its making some more anxious as they feel their kids are being failed on one or both counts and its making others actively belligerant that they are being asked to do something they don't see should be their problem. Hence a range of different attitudes to the situation overall (which the kids tend to mirror).

The problem is what is the alternative?

If covid is hitting the poorest worst then sending kids to school when cases are so high and hospitals so over run, isn't necessarily a good idea either - we could be looking at a lot more people with long term sickness issues and inability to work, deaths of far more parents with school age kids and of course if the hospitals have broken there's no health care if a kid slips over and say breaks an arm.

More to the point as has been discussed before, schools were being forced to close due to outbreaks and staff shortages and kids put into constant isolation with no planned home schooling available at all (and these were disproportionally the poorest kids being affected most with reports of some forced into isolation up to 6 times between september and christmas).

There isn't an easy way out of this. Opening the schools too early is unlikely to resolve matters - indeed I strongly suspect things would be worse.

Where the problem lies is with long term resourcing in education, poor planning and support for a possible 2nd school closure (the government were adamant it wouldn't happen again and this was a foolish assumption) and long term economic inequality being such a driving force in educational inequality.

For primary age kids I don't see why any kid can't catch up academic if resources, man power and time are throw at the problem. What I see being a problem is politicians being remotely interested in enabling this. Many in government don't acknowledge the economic issues in the first place.

Its much more complex for kids in exam years. And thats where I think the problems lie most. Its not a lost generation. Its a lost age group of about 3 or 4 years primarily at A level and GCSE level. Those unfortunate to be in that group will be a microgeneration set apart from others (there is a weird microgeneration between Gen X and Millenials which have unique characteristics). This may inspire in the long run and produce some mavericks and different ways of thinking about things.

I do think that the idea that education and opportunity ends when we leave school is one which is generally unhealthy though and I do think society would do better as a whole if we were better able to see past that and work on ways to create additional opportunities in adult life. Much of our mentality about 'a lost generation' centres on this concept. Maybe, the pandemic will open our eyes a bit more on that one and force a change. Though I am not holding my breathe on that either.

On a personal level I have no concerns about my DC's academic progress. She's 5, seems quick to learn and I'm comfortable with "teaching" reading and maths with the help of school provided and other paid for apps. I'm also a SAHM so largely free to help her with her work and set up other fun stuff.

DC2 is 2 and fairly independent at playing so academically all is good.

Creative stuff I'm more optimistic about after success with a how to draw YouTube video (I'm crap at drawing)

Exercise happens ok, we go for walks as a family, Tennis is still allowed (Scotland) and we do YouTube stuff.

The problem is social skills and concentration, not interrupting peers, sharing (especially for 2 year old) and group table manners (no snatching!)

With less confident kids (my 2 are both confident/over confident around other adults) lack of time away from parents could well become a problem.

With all of our advantages I can see how easily things would be a problem for people who didn't have them. If WiFi is too slow/busy, switch to my phone or DH's phone which both have good data packages, we're both degree educated and comfortably numerate, I'm not working so there's plenty of adult time to help and I've had time to learn about phonics (not how I learned to read) and the spare cash to buy apps, the Songbirds books for extra books to read off screen, the extra printer ink etc. We also have the resources to "make the best" of the time with craft, baking or whatever.

The gaps and inequalities help no one, doesn't stop me trying to keep my DD working happily but doesn't make me happy that she will likely be (further) ahead.

Brilliant post, RedToothBrush!