What is the impact on children of the months of school closures in your view?

[MTBer2021]

It seems there's a huge range of views on this and partly depends on how much your child's school is offering and whether or not there's an adult at home to spend time supervising home learning etc.

I am surprised that some well educated parents I know are so relaxed about the impact on their young children of months of school closures. People whose child would ordinarily never miss a day of school other than due to genuine illness (no term time holidays etc) but who seem very relaxed about how the current situation won't mean their children fall behind at all.

There are some people endlessly saying that children are so resilient and how in other countries they don't even start school until age 6 or 7 so there's nothing to worry about..... and there are also those who are desperate to get kids back maybe before it's even safe and teachers who worry about kids who are doing little to no home learning for various reasons.

There are ways to manage home learning for some and I know some kids are happier at home than at school but is it really a popular and informed opinion that the current situation will have no lasting impact on kids and can all be easily remedied when schools open (whenever that is) and with no specific catch up programme?

@AlexaShutUp

Of course I wouldn't sacrifice my own life just to stop my kids having to be out of school for a few more months. But I shouldn't have to die so my kids can become educated! My point is, at what point do we say the risk to children's wellbeing, health and education now weigh more heavily than the risk of Covid, when for the majority of those who get Covid, it isn't serious. I am not downplaying the risk of Covid and that people do get seriously ill and a small % do die from it. I get that. But at what point do we say that we will have to accept people will get sick from this virus and people will die but we need to get on with life. How much longer do we keep kids out of school? Another term, another year? I am exagerrating of course, but you get my point. It is incredibly frustrating that the goal posts are shifting constantly and I feel completely helpless.

I worry about the long time effects on their social and people skills, and at 8 and 4, my children aren’t as badly affected as teenagers (this time last year, if someone had said “teenagers will spent most I’ve every working day on a screen for the next year” what the hell would we have said).

Having said that I understand totally why schools are closed and the in for three days, off for 10 days model of last term’s experience was hideous too.

My children’s mental health isn’t great. But if I’m being totally selfish, trying to work roughly close to our contracted hours and support our children to be vaguely happy (never mind to actually learn something) is hideous. It isn’t possible. Even the most supportive employer saying “do what you can” is encouraging and expecting the working until midnight to catch up model that I’m seeing most parents do in this situation. And it isn’t sustainable - I’m a parent, I don’t expect gazillions of hours to myself, but there is never a break from work or parenting and there is never a break from the endless guilt about doing one (badly) when I ought to be doing the other (better). I suspect I will lose my job due to performance issues.

But Australia, its a fluid situation? The Kent mutation took everyone by surprise?

We thought after a difficult winter we would be on the home straight with the old strain and the vaccine and the rug was ripped out from under that plan, because of a strong mutation.

I’d rather have mine at home safe along with their teachers safer and the wider community. They are learning at home so not missing education and we are doing our part they know.

I’d like there to be healthcare if we need it, I’d like people not to lose family members etc. A little missed school is worth that. Education can be caught up on, health is so very much more important.

Re mental health...

What's the mh like of dc whose parent is in life fighting for their lives?

I can't understand the balance between missing friends since December... Or being terrified about loosing a parent?

Academically we seem to be ok here. Mentally not too bad either.

But as another long term break looms for the same children not in school I think the situation is not good for them.

Too much reliance on screens over rl friendship and development based on that.

It is especially bad for early years who learn through play.

When I take dd to nursery - and I appreciate not everyone even has that so I’m very relieved we do - I see dc laughing with friends on way to school.

It’s strange to see. Something so normal yet impossible.

@AlexaShutUp

I am guessing you are just looking at SM and are not privvy to the true condition and suffering of your nephews. My children do exactly the same, the only difference is the tears, the nightmares, the anger and upset and the deeply stressful time they are having dealing with not seeing a single friend for over a month now. The loneliness, the lack of proper sports exercise, the misery of it all. You are seeing the insta version for sure!

What an odd post. Do you know @Diana's nephews, seeing as you're able to pronounce so confidently on their "true condition and suffering"? Or are you just extrapolating from your own experience to assume that no kids are coping in the current situation? I'm genuinely sorry if your kids are experiencing tears, nightmares, anger and upset as a result of being at home, but this really isn't the case for all children. Many have adapted well, and even if they miss school and their friends, they are coping just fine. There is no reason to assume that @Diana's nephews are any different.

There is a lot of projection going on. There is are some people who thinnk ALL children MUST be suffering because declaring such helps their narrative.

There clearly are some who are. But equally there are some for whom its a real blessing in disguise - and exposes problems AT school which haven't been addressed (for example some SEN kids being left to effectively rot which parents wouldn't have realised otherwise).

Kids mirror their parents in lots of ways. So parents projecting can be actively harmful even in kids who otherwise would be doing just fine.

After the first lockdown there was a report that said that there were a percentage of kids which were absoluetely fine and possibly doing better due to the closure. There is no reason to think that report was wrong or that it is fundamentally different this time around.

@zafferana

Any thought of the teaching staff who it will have a great affect on if they catch it.... no? What a surprise

Oh God the 'WHAT ABOUT THE TEACHERS?' crew are here.

The teachers at my DC's schools want to get back to school too. How do I know this? I'm friends with one of them and she says they all hate online teaching, can see how the DC are falling behind and would much rather be back in the classrooms. We had ZERO cases of Covid in our school. Yes, ZERO. She also said that the teaching union she was, until last week, a member of was urging her in regular emails to refuse to go into work. She has cancelled her membership as a result.

I want to go back to school too (secondary teacher). I hate online teaching. I can see it’s not as good as real school. I want schools open very badly. But like all the other teachers on here I want them open safely - not just for teachers and school staff but for children’s families and the wider community. I want them open sustainably so they aren’t sending pupils home on no notice to isolate repeatedly. (Your friend with the zero cases, by the way - very lucky. That’s all. With the new variant that likely wouldn’t have lasted). Just opening up like we did in September will lead to exactly the same result - if not worse due to the new variant. When will you ‘open the schools’ crew ever think?

After the first lockdown there was a report that said that there were a percentage of kids which were absoluetely fine and possibly doing better due to the closure. There is no reason to think that report was wrong or that it is fundamentally different this time around.

No this was a survey in May. Reported in August

It wasn’t after the long closure it was just at beginning after Easter break,

And I don’t believe the mirroring is going on as much as people post on here. Parents will generally be positive, but of course worry if their dc are struggling.

I’m glad mh has been covered today in the media.

So much dismissal that it piles more on top of a difficult situation. Let people talk without minimising

alexa I know of absolutely no teens that are doing 'just fine'. Not one! If you can identify one then bully for you. But the reality is that most teens are really, really struggling. As would anyone under this level of pressure and stress in exam year or even trying to do GCSE coursework on your own at home.

It is not acceptable to me, to say well they walk the dog so therefore they are fine! Of course that is a very flippant and unhelpful way to look at it. You can't expect to see the full picture from afar.

What I can see on here are the same bored teachers telling us all the kids are fine, what are we worried about! Of course they are not fine. How can the possibly be? They are locked in their houses 247 with an hour to go for a walk.

It is the same as being in actual prison without the company!!!!
So I am not sure why anyone would actually expect them to be 'fine' most of them are anything but.

[quote Australia77]@AlexaShutUp

Of course I wouldn't sacrifice my own life just to stop my kids having to be out of school for a few more months. But I shouldn't have to die so my kids can become educated! My point is, at what point do we say the risk to children's wellbeing, health and education now weigh more heavily than the risk of Covid, when for the majority of those who get Covid, it isn't serious. I am not downplaying the risk of Covid and that people do get seriously ill and a small % do die from it. I get that. But at what point do we say that we will have to accept people will get sick from this virus and people will die but we need to get on with life. How much longer do we keep kids out of school? Another term, another year? I am exagerrating of course, but you get my point. It is incredibly frustrating that the goal posts are shifting constantly and I feel completely helpless.[/quote]
Its not just people getting sick from covid. Its having the capacity left in hospitals so that if your kid falls over in the playground and breaks a leg, there is an ambulance available to take them to hospital. Thats why the lockdown - because normal life CAN NOT continue if we carry on anyway. To give another example it has the potential to trigger food shortages if food producers are hit in large numbers all at the same time and are off sick.

We are at the end game with the roll out of the vaccination. It is the best way to enable hospitals to recover enough so we can start thinking about normality.

The government tone and planning has gradually in the past fortnight started to shift from a short term one to a medium to long term strategy. Thats a good sign.

Its about hanging on for dear life for the next 3 months.

This may teach kids things about life that they carry forward which are hugely important to the future. The value of school, of parents, appreciating things they took for granted before, loving their friends more.

We don't know.

Humans have a way of adapting. Its not necessarily 'resiliance' - thats the wrong word. It will change the future for many but the assumption that its a negative force for decades to come I think is over blown. I think it redefines a generation. And every generation is different and has different priorities and concerns shaped from childhood to adulthood.

I think there are massive issues. They need addressing. But they needed addressing prior to the pandemic - its just no one gave a shit about them before. It has shone a light of these issues in a way that hasn't been seen before. It brings education right back up the priority list, which demands a solution from government.

Going forward we chose either to fight those things in a proactive way or to roll over and proclaim 'well thats it' everythings chuffed and give up. We have to see things in this prism or we condemn kids and teenagers to an even shitter future than the panademic itself creates.

yeah yeah, heard it ALL before.

Bored teachers, @feelingquitehopeful?
Chance would be a fine thing.
How rude. Why would we be bored working full time (and in the case if those teaching bubbles as well, doing two jobs)?
Not to mention most of the people on here saying kids are fine are parents saying it about their own kids. By the way, comparing lockdown to prison just reveals ignorance and lack of thought.

I think its heartbreaking and that they are really the most cut off age group in society and the ones missing out on so much more than any of us.
I also hate the way it’s constantly said how ‘resilient’ young children are, it’s talking for them because how on earth do we know how they are feeling about all of this when they are too young to express and understand how they are feeling accurately. I have 2 young children, and the changes in my primary school child this year have been absolutely huge, in a negative way

@Dontwanttooutmyself

*Any thought of the teaching staff who it will have a great affect on if they catch it.... no? What a surprise*

Teachers shown to be at no greater risk of catching SARS-CoV-2 than the general population.

But even if they were, there is a valid argument to say that we need to ask teachers to put themselves at the increased risk, in the same way that we have asked medical professionals, care home staff, food production workers etc etc because the costs of school closures are potentially worth it.

I completely recognise that this isn't an easy argument, and that at an individual level, it is really tough to ask teachers to make this sacrifice, but we have had no problem asking nurses to take these risks, so why should it be any different for teachers?

I couldn't agree with you more.

The fallout for my Year 11 and 13 DC will be their grades this summer. There is no way, however hard they work now that they will end up with grades as high as they would have achieved under normal circumstances. DC2 school has just emailed to say they're moving to a four day week, and my year 11 can read a book on the missing day. Wonderful.
They're bored and fed up, we can live with that.
But those grades will follow them around for life.

Of course I wouldn't sacrifice my own life just to stop my kids having to be out of school for a few more months. But I shouldn't have to die so my kids can become educated! My point is, at what point do we say the risk to children's wellbeing, health and education now weigh more heavily than the risk of Covid, when for the majority of those who get Covid, it isn't serious.

At the point at which we are safely able to re-open schools without the NHS being overwhelmed. Nobody is waiting for Covid to be eradicated before the schools can re-open; they re-opened in September, not because there was no risk, but because the risk was deemed to be manageable. Right now, it is not manageable, and if we allow the virus to spread unchecked in schools, the NHS will be overwhelmed with disastrous consequences.

You're right that only a small percentage of people currently die from covid, and that's why the school closures may seem disproportionate, but remember that the current death rate is the one with all the measures in place. If our hospitals are overwhelmed, then that percentage will shoot right up, and many more young, healthy people will die...the ones who currently go to ICU but pull through. Treatment for other conditions won't be able to happen either, due to lack of beds/staff, leading to more suffering and unnecessary deaths. Schools won't be immune either; some will have to close at short notice due to staff shortages, and there won't be any plans for remote learning in place.

I understand the feelings of helplessness, the frustration at moving goalposts, the stress caused by uncertainty about how long the situation could go on. The current situation is shit for lots of us. The trouble is, if we bury our heads in the sand, try to carry on as usual and hope it goes away, the situation is likely to get a whole lot shitter yet.

@cptartapp

The fallout for my Year 11 and 13 DC will be their grades this summer. There is no way, however hard they work now that they will end up with grades as high as they would have achieved under normal circumstances. DC2 school has just emailed to say they're moving to a four day week, and my year 11 can read a book on the missing day. Wonderful. They're bored and fed up, we can live with that. But those grades will follow them around for life.

Why are they doing a four day week?

The impact for many is huge and negative. Dr Jenny Harries and many other paediatricians have clearly stated this. Obviously the impact will be far greater for the poor and those from families with little education. However, the impact on society going forward means that everything will be negatively impacted via the health, social and economic fall-out, so it is a disaster at both micro and macro levels.
There really has got to be a sensible debate about this that doesn't degenerate into the trope that "but teachers and everyone else will die" and it is an absolute disgrace that the government refuses to look at any cost-benefit analysis of its policies.

@zafferana

Any thought of the teaching staff who it will have a great affect on if they catch it.... no? What a surprise

Oh God the 'WHAT ABOUT THE TEACHERS?' crew are here.

The teachers at my DC's schools want to get back to school too. How do I know this? I'm friends with one of them and she says they all hate online teaching, can see how the DC are falling behind and would much rather be back in the classrooms. We had ZERO cases of Covid in our school. Yes, ZERO. She also said that the teaching union she was, until last week, a member of was urging her in regular emails to refuse to go into work. She has cancelled her membership as a result.

My kids school was exactly the same ZERO cases they were fab at being COVID secure. The school also hate this way of learning and want to be open for all. ( neighbour is a teacher) We were going back on that Tuesday until the Announcement! Also the teachers talk of being mithered by the unions.

I have one 3 yo. In many ways she is likely more advanced than she’d have been under normal conditions, because I’m crap at imaginative play so teaching her to read and manipulate numbers is the easy option. Socially I do notice a difference; it was particularly marked in the early days of the pandemic as we went from lots of social contact, activity etc to nothing at all - she stopped sleeping, became clingy etc. Now we do the best we can within the rules.

Friends’ circumstances range from “two parents in FT work trying to home ed three kids” through “sending them to nursery, business as usual”. Broadly though I think it’s going to exacerbate divisions in education. In other news, bears shit in woods.

Marsha mental health for students and teachers. To get them away from screens. and catch-up on homework. Head has sent a link about the importance of reading for pleasure and extracurricular activities away from screens!
All very nice, but my year 11 wants teaching please. His homework took the sum total of an hour at the weekend.
What a joke.