New data reveals jobs with highest death rate from coronavirus

[MeanwhileTime]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-new-data-reveals-jobs-with-highest-rates-of-death-from-coronavirus-12198285

@Handsnotwands

I’m with harbackwriter. Factory workers, those in processing, manufacturing, warehouses and operations, who, let’s face it we are all totally reliant on don’t fit the popular hero narrative. They just keep turning up to their badly paid, precarious jobs, with no chance of social distancing and often not even any bloody windows to be opened. It is shameful.

Indeed! People should see what it's like in a parcel depot when they're ordering their lockdown boredom parcels. A lot of them self employed with no safety net.

It's always about teachers on here. Its weird.

The poorest in society are worst affected. It sadly was always going to be thus. “All in it together” my backside

@Christinaismyperson well said.

This is interesting (sorry still teacher-themed).

Are taxi drivers off the top rank at least, now?

ps: what are the stats for police - same/lower/higher? I can't imagine higher or that would be all over media. Security guards are higher risk apparently.

@Piggywaspushed

It's in the data marked.

Why mention it if that's your answer to being asked about it?

I then posted beneath. Sorry was busy.

The police fit into several of those categories. PCSOs would probably be removed form any report (as were TAs for education). It is difficult to figure out where police go in the bald categories and to discriminate as to whether it is person facing or not. I am sure police unions will be looking at the figures. I can find break downs for individual jobs in education, for example, from an education publication but struggling to find it in the data.

A lot of these jobs are done by mostly men who are stressed, overweight and unhealthy. It's not just the viral load of repeated exposure at work but their overall health won't be good, so it's not surprising.

The virus has really exposed how bad the country's health is and how much disparity there is in health outcomes. Don't forget the healthiest areas of the country have an average life expectancy of ten years more than the least healthy. This gap has widened recently.

I get all this. My husband is a chef. They’ve also barely been at work most of the pandemic! I wonder if the ones sadly affected are perhaps takeaway workers (a) working in a smaller kitchen than a restaurant one or (b) BAME.

This was my point but I clearly didn't make it clear. My point is that the worst kitchens for overcrowding etc, are also the ones that are most likely to be open - takeaways, often BAME workers, often very poorly paid, probably travelling to work (most likely on public transport) etc. even where many establishments are family owned, the point is that they're not wealthy, the kitchens are small, they're having to work in close quarters, see customers etc.

In the ONS data set at the first sub-occupation level, you can see the data broken down by sex and occupation. With the sexes remaining differentiated, there are 44 sub-groups.
www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/coronaviruscovid19relateddeathsbyoccupationenglandandwales/current/reftablesfinal.xlsx

If the phase 2 vaccinations were to proceed by the risk of death to these 44 groups, the first 10 groups would be men only. Male teachers would be 28th, and female teachers 39th.

Are police specifically on there? Did they only break down teaching, healthcare etc so much because of FOI requests?

Just to carry on with my point, in our little village high street. There is a greasy spoon (open for takeaway), a small independent cafe, a small dessert shop (open for takeaway), a curry house (open for takeaway), two Italian restaurants (one is definitely closed, not sure about the other), two pubs (both closed), a Cafe Nero (open for takeaway), a fried fish shop (open for takeaway), a chicken/burger fast food place (open for takeaway), a Chinese takeaway (open).

The two cafes are both run by locals and I've seen their kitchens - TINY. I can't speak for the curry house, fish, chicken or Chinese kitchens but I'm guessing they're pretty small too. The two pubs probably have the biggest kitchens (although probably not huge), but they're closed. I've never met anyone who works in the curry, fish, chicken or chinese place via school or other activities and I can see that many are BAME (we're in the home counties so it's quite white). Obviously attendance at the local village school / local sports or arts groups etc is not a 100% way to assess where they live, but it is telling. It's entirely possible they while they don't live far away, they're still needing to take a bus to work eg if they live in the local town centre which is about 20 minutes by bus.

So these are people working in small kitchens, most likely taking public or shared transport to work, working long hours and also at high risk based on their ethnicity. I'm not surprised there's a high death toll. And I have no idea what the solution is - stop ordering from takeaway places, taking away their source of income? Doesn't seem like a great option.

These stats likely show that chefs etc are more likely to be overweight or have diabetes etcc...

Definitely need to.compare when industries were actually open.
Can really only compare anywhere at all from Sept when places had masks distancing etc.

The general health of workers i each sector will vary.
Sedentary
Smokers
Obesity
Social distancing/masks

Imo job is irrelevant because

Any parent is exposed by their child
It comes down to individual risk.
Do we say well no mp has died. they must be at very low risk as only 1 hospitalised.
Or do we say BJ was hospitalized because he is 55 overweight male who shook hands didnt wear mask
Whitty caught jt too and MH and.neither hospitalised.

The issue is -are workpkaces doing everything to protect people
Which is
Masks
Sending home ill people including children and customer
Distancing
Is the role essential
Does it need to be done that way
Is doing the job that way (with no masks no distancing etc) causing spread to everyone else and makes the masks on parents pointless
I

If a workplace has 1000 people we would expect 100 people to have caught it.
Probably infections are more relevant than deaths . because if you are in a vulnerable grouo what matters is if you get it not that most of the rest of the workforce as slim 20yo ! If you are not.

Its like saying covid is going through a primary classroom. But its ok because the children /teacher and 90% of the parents are young -well that doesnt help 60 yo grandparent who looks after the children.
Nor is it ok for the care home people who catch it from the staff whose kids gave it to them

Do we say well no mp has died. they must be at very low risk as only 1 hospitalised.

But this is exactly it - BJ was hospitalised because he's overweight and unhealthy and he chose to go out there and pretend it wasn't happening. Most MPs have been able to work remotely (they certainly got sufficient expenses from the rest of us to facilitate this), stay away from public transport, are wealthy enough that they can maintain good health overall etc. They have't been interacting massively with the public, they don't live in crowded accommodation etc.

I expect @noblegiraffe will be pleased as she's been asking for these statistics for a while. And here they are, and wonderfully reassuring reading for all the teachers out there who had been mislead by the biased, scaremongering reports like the ridiculous TES article. I really hope this reduces the anxiety in the teaching community, and makes them feel more comfortable in the classroom.

What actually need to do now, is work out what we can do to bring down rates in the occupations who do have higher covid death rates. I'd really like to see the focus of the government and the public shift to that.

Oh I thought you hated misleading statistics, Mrsm43s? Quick to point out the issues when you don’t like them, and silent when you do?

I wonder what these stats would look like if they were reported by income bracket rather than occupation, and as I said before, what that would mean for vaccine priority.

@cardibach
Every single teacher, as nauseam, since this all began "no other professional has to work with no masks in close contact with so many people, teachers are THE MOST EXPOSED PREOFESSION EVER"
everyone else "nursery staff? Prison staff? Restaurant staff? NHS staff not working on ICU?"
Teachers "no you don't understannnnnnd, our risk is somehow so much higher and the government are sacrificing us for no reason"
And then we look at the death stats. Doesn't really stand up does it...

Well, @Arundelclassrom your time there doesn’t make me want to debate with you. You sound like a teenager imitating an adult while in a temper.
Go on then. Who else works with 30 people, changing the group hourly, with no masks and poor ventilation? I’m not saying other roles don’t have risks. This one is, as far as I know, unique to teachers.

Did it not occur to you to maybe express just a little bit of sympathy or concern for the fact that so many of the lowest paid and least respected in society have been left at the greatest risk - which I think is sobering and shameful - before banging on about yourself as a teacher?

Yeah ... good luck with that.

Tone not time.

@noblegiraffe pot meet kettle

Restaurant workers doesn't surprise me. Lots in my family, and they had no masks until maybe July. Tiny kitchens too, lots of contact with public, and when restaurants were open, well, the chef might be in the kitchen but the waiters are coming in and out bringing infection from the customers all night, so they all catch it.

What, countrygirl?

My partner is a big, fat chef in a massive industrial kitchen churning out meals for the army. He's quite at risk. 52, fat, high blood pressure, enjoys a drink. He still says i'm more at risk in my classroom "bubble" of 22 because he knows what I do.

He is very cautious and well protected. The army are well organised. He has smaller sittings, meals are prepped in advance in smaller, safer circumstances. He has full PPE. In the kitchen everyone is fully distanced. They've bought in pre-prepped sliced and diced veg and sides to reduce in-kitchen contact time. Menus have been planned to reduce kitchen time, self-service time and contact. Money has been stumped up for this. Menus have been limited and this is readily accepted. There is no table service and self service is organised and distanced. Cutlery, plates and bowls are now disposable. Screens are up. Hygiene is paramount. Every staff outfit is binned in cleaner and disinfected and washed or replaced every day.

Me? I've got a window and some spray.